One roof - different wall heights

[447Debbie]

Is there a command in Home Designer Pro 2017 where you can put a shed roof over the entire front of the house and have the walls adjust automatically so this is one continuous roof?  For example, my house consists of three wall planes in the front elevation.  The front of the garage, the front of the entryway, and the front of the master bath.  However, I'd like to cover it with one continuous roof, sloping up to a ridgeline.   It would seem you should be able to draw a roof manually over each area, say join roof planes, and you'd be done.  However, this does not work.  I understand that my walls have to change heights to do this, and I guess it's dependent on ceiling height, but I don't want to go changing and guessing at the ceiling heights everywhere to get this job done.  I only want the exterior wall heights to adjust as needed with the wall furthest out being the "master" wall and then the other two wall heights should automatically adjust and go higher as necessary.  As far as I'm concerned, the ceiling can stay the same as planned, and the extra height can get put into the attic.

 

Attached is an example of what I want to do.  However, for the example I manually made the rooms the right size so it would work.  I don't have that luxury with my real plan.

[Elovia]

Hi Debbie.  Welcome to the forum.

 

Since you have HD Pro, the easiest way to achieve the result you seek is to use a single manual roof plane drawn after you have the exterior walls placed.  Draw the manual roof plane above the lowest wall and then stretch it across all three.  Then select the roof plane and use the break line tool to break the leading lower edge of the roof plane and set the new overhang distance for each set-back section.  See the attached plan for an example.  Of course, I have no idea what dimensions you need for your design, so this proof of concept technique works as demonstrated on a simple plan with semi-random dimensions.  It should work for yours too.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Debbie447.plan

[447Debbie]

8 hours ago, Elovia said:

Hi Debbie.  Welcome to the forum.

 

Since you have HD Pro, the easiest way to achieve the result you seek is to use a single manual roof plane drawn after you have the exterior walls placed.  Draw the manual roof plane above the lowest wall and then stretch it across all three.  Then select the roof plane and use the break line tool to break the leading lower edge of the roof plane and set the new overhang distance for each set-back section.  See the attached plan for an example.  Of course, I have no idea what dimensions you need for your design, so this proof of concept technique works as demonstrated on a simple plan with semi-random dimensions.  It should work for yours too.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Debbie447.plan

I'll try it out this weekend.  My plan has a wall in the rear that goes at 45 degrees between two other walls and it's not real simple design, but I'll see if this works.  If not, maybe I'll upload my plan.  I'm also trying to get a two story entry way  (total of 13 - 14 foot ceiling, so not a full two stories) out of the deal but I think I need to get the standard roof on first.  My default ceiling height on the first floor is 10'.

[447Debbie]

Home Designer Pro 2017

 

Well, the instructions from Elovia that worked, but my layout is so complex I don't know how to go any further with it.  I thought that once I drew in the shed roof I'd have a starting place for the rest of the items I wanted but it's just too complex for me.

 

I've attached the plan.  What I'd like to do is have a decent overhang over a slab at the front entrance (front door is 96" high).  I'd like to be able to display the 40 high by 30 wide chandelier in a picture window above the door.  The light can hang from a chain; chain's length yet to be determined as it is solely dependent upon being able to display the light in the window.  I'd like to not have to raise the ceiling too far but somehow I have to get it up high enough so that it's not hanging behind the "porch roof" over the slab.  Seems the overhang gets in the way of the window.  I do have a 30' height maximum on the structure at the front, left side and rear.  The max height on the right garage plane is only 20'.  Max roof pitch can be 5:12 but I'd like to keep it as low as possible so that I don't create an attic space high enough that will force me to install fire sprinklers.  Yes, I'm also mandated by code to install fire sprinklers in this structure. One of my problems with getting this overhanging entry to look right is that it is right next to the garage wall.

 

I was thinking of something like this, but the "dormer" has to have a larger window to display the 40x30 entry light.  The 2' overhang from the garage adjacent to this entry space invades this space and ruins the look as well. 
https://jeleba.com/front-entry-ideas-entry-contemporary-with-front-entry-pendant-lighting/front-entry-ideas-entry-traditional-with-standing-rib-roof-door-hardware-6/

floor plan.zip

[DavidJPotter]

I am sorry I attempted to make two videos, one of step by step how I created the attached file and then a second video speaking of the steps necessary to do what I did. This example contains a lot of guesses due to you not providing essential facts but I hope it does help you.

 

DJP

Debbie447.plan

[Elovia]

Debbie,

 

I took a little time to play with your roof, but had to make quite a few assumptions.  First, I assumed that the shed roof front elevation is important.  I then created roof planes for the back where the roof over the kitchen and dining is a gable, and the roof planes over the master bedroom and the living areas are shed/hip roofs.  This results in a potential celestory window along the back running for the full width of the dwelling. You could use it for more natural light in your building.  There are still some compromises and/or problems with this design, and it may not meet all of your criteria (note eave overhang on your lot line).  It is just a free suggestion, so take it for what that's worth.

 

Alternatively, if the shed roof front elevation is not important, consider using gables for the garage and master bath and a manually-built gable dormer over the front door.

 

If the doorway and window are important to not be impacted by the garage overhang, consider rotating your stairs 180° so the top is near the front entrance and eliminate the hall that you currently have for the top of the stairs.  Then consider moving the door away from the garage wall and overhang by similar amount.

 

I removed a lot of furnishings and fixtures in the attached plan in order to get the file size down to where I could post it.

 

Hope this inspires or helps.

 

Debbie447Elo.plan
 

 

 

[447Debbie]

1 hour ago, Elovia said:

Debbie,

 

I took a little time to play with your roof, but had to make quite a few assumptions.  First, I assumed that the shed roof front elevation is important.  I then created roof planes for the back where the roof over the kitchen and dining is a gable, and the roof planes over the master bedroom and the living areas are shed/hip roofs.  This results in a potential celestory window along the back running for the full width of the dwelling. You could use it for more natural light in your building.  There are still some compromises and/or problems with this design, and it may not meet all of your criteria (note eave overhang on your lot line).  It is just a free suggestion, so take it for what that's worth.

 

Alternatively, if the shed roof front elevation is not important, consider using gables for the garage and master bath and a manually-built gable dormer over the front door.

 

If the doorway and window are important to not be impacted by the garage overhang, consider rotating your stairs 180° so the top is near the front entrance and eliminate the hall that you currently have for the top of the stairs.  Then consider moving the door away from the garage wall and overhang by similar amount.

 

I removed a lot of furnishings and fixtures in the attached plan in order to get the file size down to where I could post it.

 

Hope this inspires or helps.

 

Debbie447Elo.plan
 

 

 

 

[447Debbie]

Thank you.  I will definitely look at it.  The shed roof is NOT important.  I just thought that would be the best starting place for what I wanted to do.  I'll try to tackle the manually-built gable dormer but I wasn't having any luck with the dormers. All the suggestions you made are good ones. I've run them all thru my head already.  The problem with moving the front door is the view is out the back windows, and with the door where it currently is, when you walk in the front door, you see the mountain view out the back.

Something I'm really considering is putting the chandelier over the stairway just off to the left side of the entry door.  The bottom of the light fixture would be at about the 6' level, but it would be hanging over the stairway so it wouldn't matter.  You'd walk under it as you went down the stairs.  I asked a friend and they told me that looked stupid though.   This is really the simplest solution.  I've seen it done and it looks good when the stairs are U-shaped and the light is hung over the landing, but I guess it's not that attractive on a stair that goes straight down.  I've considered adding some square footage to the entry to make a u-shaped stairway so I could use this method.

 

The celestory would be nice except this will be in Arizona and the sun coming in there will just be too hot.  The windows along the diagonal wall will be protected from direct sun by the patio overhang, whenever I get that drawn in.  This is really a challenge.  It's a good thing I have fun doing this, but it's starting to get to me when I can't make any progress.  It has taken me over a year to get the floor plan to where it is now. The lot has a large slope so there will be a walk out basement, that's why I have to watch my heights and stay under the 30' (20' at the right side of the garage).  

I do really appreciate your efforts and will definitely take a good look at them.  Thank you!!!

[447Debbie]

2 hours ago, DavidJPotter said:

I am sorry I attempted to make two videos, one of step by step how I created the attached file and then a second video speaking of the steps necessary to do what I did. This example contains a lot of guesses due to you not providing essential facts but I hope it does help you.

 

DJP

Debbie447.plan

Thank you DavidJPotter.  This does help me know how to create the shed roof.  I think I'll also subscribe to your YouTube channel for future reference. I'll probably need a lot more help in the future.

[447Debbie]

Home Designer Pro 2017
I'm trying a different tactic.  I'll try to make the entry design first, then let the roof fall wherever it goes.  Somehow or other I'll have to figure out how to deal with the encroachment of the adjacent garage wall eve and its visual effect on the entry way symmetry.

I have an 8' high entry door.  That should be good with a 10' ceiling on my first floor (door plus header plus room to spare)

Now, above that I need a "plant shelf" that extends 4' out past the entry door to provide a covered entry outside.

The plant shelf area has to be 60" high so I can center a 40" high chandelier in a picture window inserted into this 'Plant Shelf" area.

 

If you go to the floor plan level 1 and take a view camera from the entryway looking up you will see what I'm trying to achieve.

I've messed around with this using the 'Absolute Elevations' and "Relative Heights" but when I make a change, the results I get are not what I expected.  Maybe there is a video out there regarding the understanding of these (Abs Elev and Rel Heights).

I tried working on this but I end up with the inside walls all mismatched vertically and nothing lining up.  Exterior walls on the garage seem to take on a height of their own.  I have exterior walls showing up on the inside of the entry way.  When I put a door on my closet in the entry, I lose its ceiling. It really should NOT be this hard to create an extended height entryway.  I'm giving up for the night.  Tomorrow is another day.

 

 

Untitled_2.zip

[solver]

What exterior style will this house be? What material will the roof be? No one can offer anything other than guesses without this info.

 

Why the raised entry ceiling? If this were my house with a view out the back, I'd start with a lowered ceiling in the entry and let the ceiling heights raise as you near the views.

 

Where in AZ? The backdrop looks like Sedona. 

 

I'd try to eliminate the angled wall. Unless you will have a flat roof over most of the house, it will complicate the build, and result in wasted interior space. If you are on a corner, you might try turning the garage 90 degrees.

 

The plan has a huge amount of "circulation" space. I'm guessing you have a need, or just planning for wheel chair access, so I understand the wide hallways, but the entry, for example, is almost the size of the master bedroom.

 

Have you considered a design professional -- Architect or other, to help you with the plan?

[solver]

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[solver]

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[447Debbie]

14 hours ago, solver said:

What exterior style will this house be? What material will the roof be? No one can offer anything other than guesses without this info.

 

Why the raised entry ceiling? If this were my house with a view out the back, I'd start with a lowered ceiling in the entry and let the ceiling heights raise as you near the views.

 

Where in AZ? The backdrop looks like Sedona. 

 

I'd try to eliminate the angled wall. Unless you will have a flat roof over most of the house, it will complicate the build, and result in wasted interior space. If you are on a corner, you might try turning the garage 90 degrees.

 

The plan has a huge amount of "circulation" space. I'm guessing you have a need, or just planning for wheel chair access, so I understand the wide hallways, but the entry, for example, is almost the size of the master bedroom.

 

Have you considered a design professional -- Architect or other, to help you with the plan?

Fountain Hills.  I also noticed that looked like Sedona but it was the only mountain view I could find in Home Designer Pro.  It will be stucco for the exterior.  Not sure yet on the roof.  I don't want a flat roof over any inside living space.    I'd like stone coated steel that looks like slate, but the price may be too much, however it may mean the structure can be less beefy because steel weighs much less that cement tiles.  If I don't go with stone coated steel, the roof will be cement tiles that look like slate (not the Spanish style).

Exterior style - anything but Spanish, I don't like arches.  I guess I would go Traditional as it will better match the interior.  No lites in the windows. I want full clear views.  Hip roof, low profile 3:12, maybe 4:12.  I can go 5:12 max by the NPOA (an HOA but without monthly dues).  Interior will be windows and doors without casing.  Traditional cabinets and lighting.  Not sure how I'll pull that off.  The lack of casing is pretty contemporary/modern.  I like casing, but I'm trying to cut corners so I can afford the 96" doors and 96" doors with casing won't be cheap.  Plus, casing adds a lot of floor space and with the 36" wide doors I'm already adding floor space.

The raised ceiling in the entry way is to allow for a chandelier that was given to my husband and I for a wedding present/home warming etc, from his parents who are no longer with us.  It's 40" tall.  I'd like for it to have window where the sun could possibly hit it (direction is iffy but it is tilted a little west ) because the sun hits the crystals and sends rainbows everywhere.  Without a raised ceiling, the other option is to hang it above the basement stairway just off to the left of the entry way.  I have given that a lot of consideration.  Some say it would look stupid.  My thought is, for once we'll be able to see it, instead of having it hanging over our heads.  Right now it's 19' up in our entry way, there is a second floor loft that blocks its view, and you really only see the bottom of it.  Our current entry really doesn't allow a good view of that fixture, but I digress. It does do the rainbow thing though.  (attached picture junk.jpg [i just name it junk so I know I can delete it])

The angled wall wasn't in my beginning plans but was suggested over the one I had initially that made a number of ninety degree turns (I am attaching as Contender 1) because with all the turns, there were corners that blocked the view.  The angled wall allows for a full view of Four Peaks, the wash, AND the Superstitions, Weavers Needle, the Fountain.  The deck will also be covered but it doesn't necessarily have to be an extension of the house roof.  I envision the deck roof being "flat", with the elevator going up to that platform as a look out deck. The Master Bedroom loses the view of Four Peaks, but keeps the view of the Superstitions and adds a night light view.   I do like the angled wall plan for the way the living room laid out with a straight view to the tv, and still being able to see the view.  It's hard in an open floor plan to even find a wall for the tv, so this was a welcome event to have this turn out like this.  The idea of raising the ceiling to the views is a good one, but I have height requirements to meet in the back and there will be a walk out basement below the back which will further add to that restriction.  Also, I don't want any vaulted ceilings because they don't ventilate.  I've had two and have had issues with both.

 

The wide hall ways are designed for future wheel chair use.  Plan for the worst, hope for the best.  But, you are right, I don't need that big of an entryway.  It just kind of lined up that way, unless I want to walk right into the living room.

 

I am on a corner, but that plan I have right now is up against every setback line except the one on the left and moving left isn't desirable.  (Eves can overhang the setback by two feet)  The right garage wall is at the 20' setback because I don't anticipate the garage plane going over 20'.  I have a 20' height requirement if I'm only set back 20'. Otherwise, my height requirement is 30', and I have to be set back 30'. That's why behind the garage it jogs in 10'.  It's a sloped lot.  Quite sloped (I am attaching my terrain plan), and will be a walk-out basement.  I looked at turning the garage,as a side entry on the left but then the other part of the house would be in the way.  It's a very small lot.  I can't enter from the other street either as it is not allowed because of hills, site lines, etc.  I have to enter from the LEFT side of the lot and sweep across the front of the house, while dropping the elevation of the driveway about four feet.  Your idea could still work but the driveway would still enter at the front left (I have to maintain ~85' from the intersection), sweep all the way across the front, and then turn around the corner to enter the garage.  Plus, there is only 20' width there to the lot line, it slopes more toward the back, so there will need to be a larger retaining wall to that, vs, the retaining wall height needed with the way it is currently drawn.

 

I don't yet have an official topographical plot, but I did create my own by tracing points on Google Earth, and dumping those into a text file and bringing them into Home Designer Pro.  I don't have them under my working plan because it just makes the file huge (45 mb), and it slows down commands.  I know Google Earth isn't Gospel, but I walked the lot, and what I got from Google Earth is a very good representation of the actual slope on the lot.

 

I have considered a designer, but wanted to get my floor plan figured out first.  My current house took 19 revisions with a designer, I'd prefer not to have to pay for that many revisions again.  I certainly admit I am not capable of going without a designer, I just don't want to bring them in this early and I would certainly need the topographical done before bringing in a designer.  The other problem is I do not yet live in Arizona, so getting someone on board there would mean I'd be working long distance with them.  

One caveat - the North arrow could be slightly off, but not much.  I found out that Home Designer Pro doesn't maintain the actual plot line bearings when the plot is turned but I had to turn the plot to straighten it out to draw the house at decent working angles.  The red line cutting across the floor plan is the Four Peaks view.  To the bottom of it you're looking at the neighbor's house.  To the right you should see Four Peaks.

 

Other caveats - ignore all the materials on the plan, that will be the last thing I'll do.  I am currently planning 96" doors at 36" wide though, and also planning 10' ceilings in the kitchen and living room.  I am more than willing to drop to 9' in other rooms if it helps out with the plan or costs.  Know that my attic cannot be large enough to stand in (I think they said 6'), otherwise I need fire sprinklers up there as well!

 

I hope this will at least let you know I have put a lot of thinking and research into this.  I think I answered all of your questions.  Let me know if you have more.

terrain plan.zip

Contender 1.zip

[447Debbie]

12 hours ago, solver said:

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I do love this design.  There is no encroachment from the garage overhang - LOVE that.  I just don't think I can do that with the garage for reasons explained in my lengthy post.  Wish I could.  I did ask the building dept about this probably three or four months ago, but with the hills on the road and that road to the right being a collector street, there are even more rules and regulations.  I realize though I didn't explain all this in my initial postings.  It is still possible, if I can meet all site line requirements, but the building dept thought that was highly unlikely based on their knowledge of the terrain and curves on the road.

Putting the garage on the left isn't really an option either.  It just doesn't flow to the kitchen and since I have to enter there I wouldn't have enough distance to slope up at the curb 7", then slope back down, only to have to slope up again for the last 10' in front of the garage.  I definitely have a challenging lot.   

You know, maybe that right entrance would work. I see you do have the drive coming from the left and swinging around.  Plus, that would reduce the left/right dimension 36' to 24' and give me more distance, while increasing the front/back from 24' to 36'.  This might allow a straight wall all the way to the back instead of making that jog from the 20' setback to the 30' setback I'd even have the garage at 30' back.  MAYBE I can get this to work.  The driveway can be outside the setback so.....  It will probably take another retaining wall.  

Edited December 10, 2016 by 447Debbie
Reconsidered the right entrance to the garage

[solver]

I'll comment more later, but here is one showing the raised part moved forward, and the garages entering from the front.

 

Suggest you decide on how the deck will be roofed as it will impact the overall plan. 

[447Debbie]

1 hour ago, solver said:

I'll comment more later, but here is one showing the raised part moved forward, and the garages entering from the front.

 

Suggest you decide on how the deck will be roofed as it will impact the overall plan. 

My choice would be to cover the deck so that it's a walkable deck up above, accessible from the elevator.  As long as I can stay within the height restrictions (30' from natural grade) and be able to design the elevator shaft so that it's not an obnoxious rectangular prism jutting out of the roof, the NPOA said they'd would allow it.   Elevator is an IGD drive and requires 108" of overhead clearance (this is measured from the finished 3rd floor surface [ 1. walk-out basement, 2. main level, 3. upper deck]).    If push comes to shove, it can get by with 8 feet above, in which case a remote controller would have to installed alongside it in the basement. It's all about aesthetics and height requirements.

[Jo_Ann]

Food for thought.

[solver]

Your Google Earth image really helps.

 

What about pivoting the entire house around and creating a single angled wall across the entire back of the house?

 

Garages shown entering from the left.

[LawB10]

Is this what you're trying to do?

 

If so, click on the walls and rooms to see what was done....

 

Debbie 447-1.zip

[447Debbie]

17 hours ago, Jo_Ann said:

Food for thought.

I like that but it doesn't provide any overhang over the door.  I wouldn't need the overhang to the left.  I know I had a porch across the entire front, but that was when I was trying to cover the full front entrance.  I'd probably have to go up higher with the ridge, so that once extended out over the front door you could still see the chandelier.  The concept you provided is a very good start for me.  It gets rid of that obnoxious encroachment of the garage overhang.

[447Debbie]

13 hours ago, LawB10 said:

Is this what you're trying to do?   Very nice.  The only problem is I have a 30' height restriction and my lot is very sloped, so once I add in (or take out) the excavation, that would put me over thirty feet in the top ridge of the roof that makes up the ridge for the plane for the laundry room.  I would upload my plan on the elevation plot.  I uploaded the plan on top of the topography.  Granted, the front entry isn't done, but this gives you an idea of the terrain I am working with.  I've also added the graphic to show how the town calculated the 30' height requirement.  Note that I'm trying to still allow enough leftover height to get the elevator up to what could possibly be a walkable deck over the main floor decking that is currently designed, and that there will be a walk-out basement below this floor.

 

If so, click on the walls and rooms to see what was done....

 

Debbie 447-1.zip

 

Untitled_2.zip

[solver]

I thought of this concept I did several years ago for someone in Phoenix. Similar plan, only with a 2nd floor instead of your lower level.

 

The brick tower right of the door houses a U shaped stair. This might work for your plan, raising the ceiling over the stairs and using that space to hang your fixture. 

 

Also, be mindful of how a cover over the deck may block views from inside the house.

[447Debbie]

17 hours ago, solver said:

Your Google Earth image really helps.  Attached is a file that should be even more helpful and if you click on it hopefully you should be able to look at this dynamically on Google Earth.  If you can see the red line on my plot that cuts right across the corner of the "SE" setback lines, that's my Four Peaks View.  It doesn't look like that is compromised with the angled plan you suggested but I'll take a closer look at that.  I know that making the wall one line will be an easier and less expensive build so I don't want to rule it out.  There might be a problem with taking the angle across the entire back and that is the master bedroom now appears to be facing the neighboring house and it loses the city lights night view.  I've attached a file with pictures of the views. 

 

What about pivoting the entire house around and creating a single angled wall across the entire back of the house?  I'll take a look at that and see if I can navigate into that garage when turned like that.  I added some attachments to a reply to LawB10 if you want to take a look at those. One is the house on the GoogleEarth concocted elevation plot (I'm not yet sure where to set my 0 point that will determine how much is cut and how much is fill), the other is the city's picture showing how they calculate the 30' height restriction.  Keeping two separate planes on the back of the house keeps the elevator in a plane that is further up the slope and will possibly be up just far enough that it clears the 30' height restriction if I take the elevator up to an upper deck.  
 

I do appreciate all your suggestions, but I don't expect you to keep trying to come up with something.  I won't stop you...but I won't be offended if you don't. You've given me a lot of good suggestions and ideas that I can work with.  Maybe I should have bought the lot two lots further south down the hill  It had a direct view of Four Peaks in the back, was larger, and was not as sloped.  However, I think the Goldfields, Weaver's Needle, the Night Lights, the Fountain, and the Superstitions are worth the view, and that lot didn't have those views.  It did have have a grand view of the Mazatzal range.

Quote

 

 

Garages shown entering from the left.

 

45 Degree Plot 12-10-16.kmz

Views with directions.pdf

[447Debbie]

52 minutes ago, solver said:

I thought of this concept I did several years ago for someone in Phoenix. Similar plan, only with a 2nd floor instead of your lower level.

 

The brick tower right of the door houses a U shaped stair. This might work for your plan, raising the ceiling over the stairs and using that space to hang your fixture. 

 

Also, be mindful of how a cover over the deck may block views from inside the house.

Also, be mindful of how a cover over the deck may block views from inside the house..  yep, that's still in the back of my mind.  Hopefully, given the slope and the distance that the mountains are away, a covered deck won't block the view.  If it does, the cover will the first to go. 

 

The brick tower right of the door houses a U shaped stair. This might work for your plan, raising the ceiling over the stairs and using that space to hang your fixture.   I am actually considering just hanging that light over the basement stair and not bothering with a raised ceiling.  The bottom of the light would be at six feet with regards to the entryway floor, but there will be more that enough room below it as one is descending the stairs.  I have seen this done in some basement homes in AZ (the few and far between).  It's not conventional, but it would give a better view of the light and might be a welcome "oddity".