Jeff_Wilkinson

Hoping to get a little help

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I am trying to recreate my house so I can later make future improvements but I'm having a hair pulling time trying to get my FROG right. I'm attaching the plan so you can see what I'm talking about. I have a 0 level, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and A level. But my unfinished attic is what I call the 3rd level, but it is a very large space. my problem is the attic and room over the garage, if I make the wall heights according to actual measurements my house is way too tall, so I had to shrink the 3rd level and FROG (2nd) level to less than a foot height to make it look right in 3D view. so I am asking anyone that can tell me where I am going wring with my plan. Thanks

My New Plan - Test Copy.plan

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In order for anyone to offer help, they would have to know the ceiling height of each floor and the platform thickness of the second floor. Also the angle (pitch) of your roofs. Having that data, another could then help, without that pertinent data, nothing can be done other than by you.

 

DJP

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Solver, the link you provide seems to be confusing. Assume I have already constructed floor 1.

 

Do I follow steps 1-6 under "To build a second floor with gable walls" and then continue with steps 1-2 under "To build a roof ignoring the top floor"?

 

Or do I skip steps 1-2 under "To build a roof ignoring the top floor" and go straight to steps 1-6 under "To adjust the second floor"?

 

Or do I skip steps 1-6 under "To build a second floor with gable walls" and go straight to steps 1-2 under "To build a roof ignoring the top floor"?

 

Because by skipping the first 6 steps and going straight to steps 1-2 under "To build a roof ignoring the top floor", then when I get to steps 1-6 under "To adjust the second floor" there is no second floor room to click on.

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Robert -- What are you talking about?  :)

 

If you have a specific question about your project, it's best to start a new thread.

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Robert, part of learning something new, especially software, involves trial and error practice. Doing it wrong is what you do until by study followed by practice you get a desired result. We all got it wrong until we got it right, the way out is the way through something.

 

DJP

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Solver, the link you provide seems to be confusing. Assume I have already constructed floor 1.

 

Do I follow steps 1-6 under "To build a second floor with gable walls" and then continue with steps 1-2 under "To build a roof ignoring the top floor"?

 

Or do I skip steps 1-2 under "To build a roof ignoring the top floor" and go straight to steps 1-6 under "To adjust the second floor"?

 

Or do I skip steps 1-6 under "To build a second floor with gable walls" and go straight to steps 1-2 under "To build a roof ignoring the top floor"?

 

Because by skipping the first 6 steps and going straight to steps 1-2 under "To build a roof ignoring the top floor", then when I get to steps 1-6 under "To adjust the second floor" there is no second floor room to click on.

 

That is cos by skipping 1-6 you didn't create a 2nd floor AS NEEDED...... if you skip stuff in a Tut. it wont work... the steps are VERY Specific....

 

The rest depends on your Design , which I don't know.... if not building off the 1st floor walls ignore those 1-2 points as it says and follow the rest of the Tutorial.

 

Otherwise just follow the steps EXACTLY , they didn't put them in there just for giggles :)

 

M.

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Jeff,

 

By default 3 floors are over 27ft high for your plan..add in the basement, it's higher.

 

Uncheck extend slope downward on the Bay window, that's used to create a room similar to a shed.

 

The walls under the Bay window are invisable? If it's error then rebuild the foundation.

 

Alighn the Bay window roof with the wall

 

Add a step to the stairs.

 

If you don't want a basement under the Garage lower the stem wall

 

For a better look, redraw the Porch using walls and doorway(s) add Rail(s) and check no room definition.

 

Lastly  there's nothing you can do in the Attic (A level) it's just space.

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You can't just Shrink it in 3D to make it look "right" we know it isn't , so something else is up , so some images of the real house and the real measurements might help someone help you , without that info it is pretty hard , even with the plan.

 

There is the KBA on how to do a F.R.O.G. too did you see  it?

 

https://www.homedesignersoftware.com/support/article/KB-00904/creating-a-bonus-room-above-a-garage.html

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Mick,

 

Yes I saw the FROG KBA but it doesn't really talk about a FROG on a house that the roof is lower than the main house, in addition the back wall of my FROG is at standard height but front wall is not. I'm starting to think that the Suite version has limits whereas Pro does not.

 

LawB10,

 

I will use your suggestions and try to implement the best I can. The bay window foundation I deleted because I don't want the foundation to extend down from the bay, I want it to extend down from the main wall. I don't have a basement, just a crawl, and in order for me to create my current attic I had to make it a third floor. I'm still new at this but I know it will take time to get everything right.

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Gotcha Jeff you see what happens when you delete a partof the foundation that was a no-no lol, use soffits for the bay window and add a material to match the house.

 

The crawl space was over 5ft. high that's a basement, use the default settings or lower for Walls with Footings.

 

If you don't like the foundation walls change it and add a material to match the house.

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does Suite have the Bay Window tool?   it allows you to build a Bay with no foundation I think....

 

If you have uneven wall heights split the room with a Room divider and set the ceiling height of the Room on either side to the height you need and you should get an off centre Ridge , try it in a simple test plan , move the room divider around and watch the results in a 3D window as you play. ( see below)

 

BTW you did the right thing with the 3rd floor , it is the only way to make Rooms in the Attic , as HD's "attic" (level A) does not allow Room creation etc.

 

Post the plan with correct  heights etc so someone can help you , with a plan like this which you altered to make it "look right in 3D" , without notes on heights and correct roof pitches etc , there is really no point trying to do anything as it looks fine and we have no real idea what it should or you want it to look like.

 

M.

post-25-0-00995300-1442024849_thumb.jpg

 

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I've attached a few pictures to hopefully shed some light on what I'm having issues with. the rear of the house is at normal height as you can see by the windows and the front is not, but the dormer is. I've tried the room divider and I cannot get the result I need. As a matter of fact, when I delete the roof and even all of the second floor the room divider remain and cannot be deleted. I've tried making the back wall a shed wall but it brings it all the way up to the main house roof level. So I'm at a loss.

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post-3982-0-14991700-1442060360_thumb.jpg

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I tried to do this without using Pro only tools, but as I don't have Suite, not sure if I did.

 

Achieving this type of roof has been dealt with before, and there may even be a KB article on it.

 

The key is thinking about the space as 2 rooms.

 

Draw a wall (Room Divider) under the ridge. Raise the ceiling height of the rear part to whatever the back wall is. 

 

Adjust the pitch of the rear roof so that the ridge is in the correct place. I used 4.5/12 with an 84" rough ceiling.

 

Set the roof overhang to 2" on the rear gable end after breaking the gable end wall in the center.

 

To get the rear part of the gable roof overhang, on the 1st floor, draw a shallow bump out on the back half of the wall. Set the end wall to Full Gable and the front wall to High Shed. Set the walls to Balloon Through Ceiling, and adjust heights to get the roof aligned. Change the overhang so it aligns with the front part of the roof.

 

Change the walls to Room Divider on the bump out so they don't show.

 

Room Specifications are for the bump out space.

post-171-0-16948700-1442065841_thumb.jpg

post-171-0-89529900-1442065920_thumb.jpg

post-171-0-16996300-1442066796_thumb.jpg

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does Suite have the Bay Window tool?   it allows you to build a Bay with no foundation I think....

 

If you have uneven wall heights split the room with a Room divider and set the ceiling height of the Room on either side to the height you need and you should get an off centre Ridge , try it in a simple test plan , move the room divider around and watch the results in a 3D window as you play. ( see below)

 

BTW you did the right thing with the 3rd floor , it is the only way to make Rooms in the Attic , as HD's "attic" (level A) does not allow Room creation etc.

 

Post the plan with correct  heights etc so someone can help you , with a plan like this which you altered to make it "look right in 3D" , without notes on heights and correct roof pitches etc , there is really no point trying to do anything as it looks fine and we have no real idea what it should or you want it to look like.

 

M.

attachicon.gifSaltbox Roof.JPG

Yes it does and the foundation follows the windows

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Jeff,

Many of the answers given, are relevant to your room over the garage.  However, I don't think that Suite has some of the tools used to get the end results.

Your exterior has little additions, such as the front full roof overhang (under the gable with the double windows),

and the gable overhanging soffit at the west end.  All of the extras require workarounds with Suite.

 

My example is done with HDA10, using only the basic tools available in HDA and Suite.

All of my settings  (ceiling heights, roof pitches, etc.)  are just guesses at what your own settings are.  I could not open your plan to see the actual settings.

 

Too many things to explain, but I could upload my plan if you want to look at my settings.  You would only be able to open it (I think??)  if you download the free trial version of HDA2016.   Seeing the strategy used, might be helpful to you.

post-63-0-16131000-1442094503_thumb.jpg

post-63-0-48263500-1442094522_thumb.jpg

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I was only thinking about the garage roof at this point , but I agree ,I think there will be the need for alot of invisible walls in Suite to get the Roofs to generate as needed.

 

The roof on the garage isn't a Dormer, just made to look like one with that small side roof , Joanne and I helped another User about a year ago with something similar , so I think that thread is probably well worth reading , especially Jo's notes on using invisible walls.

 

https://hometalk.chiefarchitect.com/index.php?/topic/140-shed-dormer-extending-whole-length-of-the-roof-how-to/?hl=%2Bsaltbox+%2Broof+%2Bfake#entry716

 

M.

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Witht the help of everyone here I was able to get the structure of the FROG right, minus the gable wall niche on the west wall. I tried to break the wall so I can change the overhang but it won't let me change them to two different depths. I can make a change to one of the breaks but I only see it make the change when I change the other break as well, but the overhang is changed in tandem to the same value. I also tried making an invisible bump out, which works but I can't get the roof to match up exactly with the FROG roof.

.....I'm not giving up though, I'll get it eventually. I will read what Jo_Anne posted and see if I can try it. I just wanted to post an update on my progress. Thanks for everyone's help.

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Jo Ann         Suite will open and edit a HDA plan  I opened your Sueweeble plan   WOW  lol

 

look at the comparison chart there's not much difference between the two programs.

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Jeff,

I wish you had also posted a pic of the west wall invisible bumpout, so that we could see what was not matching up.  But I'm thinking maybe raise the ceiling in the invisible room.

 

LawB10,

Thanks for clarifying that Suite16 can open HDA10.  I didn't think it was possible, because HDA is a higher level program.

The difference between the programs?  LOTS.  Sloped soffits are indispensable!  Custom countertops, moldings, etc.

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Jeff,

I wish you had also posted a pic of the west wall invisible bumpout, so that we could see what was not matching up.  But I'm thinking maybe raise the ceiling in the invisible room.

 

 

 

That's what I did -- raise the ceiling in the invisible room until it was close enough to demonstrate the result.

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After I deleted the invisible room I wished I had saved a pic of it. But I was raising the ceiling height to get it close. But I could get the peak to match up but the gutters wouldn't line up, plus I had what looked like an inside eave that was inside the room on the front side roof. No matter what I tried I wasn't able to fix.

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These 2 show the invisible room and the roof planes. Note how the upper floor roof only extends over the front half of the room.

 

This is the reason for breaking the gable wall, so you can set the roof overhangs differently.

 

The invisible room just provides the small roof for the rear part.

 

post-171-0-80091300-1442186979_thumb.jpg

 

post-171-0-52667400-1442187459_thumb.jpg

 

Last pic shows the invisible room. It needs to be adjusted a bit to make everything align at the peak, but shows the idea.

 

post-171-0-88635700-1442187477_thumb.jpg

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