Vaulted ceiling producing numerous problems

[designer468]

I realized I can move a wall on my existing design to get the dimensions to work.  But I'm still getting issues with the ceiling.

 

ISSUES:

 

1. Ceiling has artifacts   and 

2. Skylight can't come through soffit

 

3. Peak of the roof is skewed because I moved the left wall over by 2" but had auto roof turned off.  

 

 

Here is the file that had everything laid out, but with the incorrect length and width. .designer468 house-2c-k2-living2.plan

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2017 by designer468
Different design version and with dimension fixes, added comment about peak being off

[solver]

I have not looked at your plan, but here are a few ideas.

 

If you have used any manual roof planes, make sure they are all joined with those adjacent. Also check that the rooms below all have the same ceiling height.

 

When you turn off Ceiling Over This Room, what you see is the underside of the roof plane, not necessarily a finished ceiling. You will most often need to draw in your own ceiling planes to cover any gaps.

 

As for the interior wall above with plywood showing, it looks like the upper wall is probably thicker than the wall below -- like it's an exterior wall over an interior wall.

 

For the last weird plywood problem, I'd fix other things first. You may need to pull the roof plane back, and it may fix itself as the model is updated.

[designer468]

Do you mean using soffits to draw in my own ceiling planes?  Is there a video that explains how to do that?

 

And if I use soffits, how do I punch skylights through the soffits?

 

[solver]

Pro has manual ceiling planes that work very much like manual roof planes.

 

You should not be using soffits for ceiling planes.

 

Check the website for videos.

[designer468]

When I try to do a manual ceiling in the attic, it puts the ceiling plane up in the air.  My project uses two floors with Open Below.  Which level do I go into to make the ceiling plane?  

 

Jo Ann kindly did this design for me because I was not able to reproduce the roof that represents our remodel.  She put soffits in the attic.  Are soffits also used to create vaulted ceilings ... especially when the Open Below option is being used?

[solver]

48 minutes ago, designer468 said:

When I try to do a manual ceiling in the attic, it puts the ceiling plane up in the air.  My project uses two floors with Open Below.  Which level do I go into to make the ceiling plane?  

 

You may move the ceiling plane up or down via its dialog box, or using transform replicate. Take an elevation and measure the distance to move it.

 

55 minutes ago, designer468 said:

Are soffits also used to create vaulted ceilings ... especially when the Open Below option is being used?

 

Sloped soffits might be used as a ceiling plane, but they don't create vaulted ceilings.

 

I'm sure Jo Ann used soffits because she does not have Pro.

[DavidJPotter]

If you haven't already, read your "Users Guide" found under the "Help" menu, it is only thirty or so pages long. Then a little, each day read-study-practice sections of your "Reference Manual" also found under the "Help" menu. The Reference Manual is over 2,000 pages long so that is why I recommend that you study- read it in small sessions balancing the study with practice so that data studied becomes Knowledge and competence for you afterward. Everything that needs doing using the software is fully described therein.Video tutorials are also referenced by subject in the Reference manual which is fully searchable by topic.  tool or procedure.

 

DJP

[LawB10]

What I don't get is this, according to you Jo_Ann fixed the plan, so how did it become unfixed? auto roof was turned off and somehow these problems

came up. When you turn auto rebuild roofs off, you don't move the exterior walls, vaulted ceilings are created by gabeling the walls and removing the

the ceiling, soffits are not used to create a vaulted ceiling, problems are being created because things are being done that's not needed, an example

is the fireplace, there's no reason to build it like that, click>build >fireplace and open it's specification box and change the numbers.

 

Reset the roof by turning auto rebuild On all the issues will disappear and DO NOT move those external walls.

[designer468]

Turning Auto Build Roof on does NOT make the issues disappear.  I’m dealing with 2 key issues:

 

1) Auto Roof is great for new designs ... HORRIBLE for remodels where some areas of the roof must remain locked in place (even while exterior walls are changing).

 

I have an architect's design that I must reproduce.  The existing 8’ walls must keep their roof planes as they are.  A rectangular section of the house will be raised to 10’9” walls and have a separate roof.  Auto Roof can’t handle that — it wants to modify the roof line in a way that is inconsistent with our architect’s designs.

 

Jo Ann kindly recreated my design, but not to spec.   I MUST move the external walls or my dimensions are off.  If I correct the walls with Auto Build roof ON, the roof gets wonky and does not look like the architect's drawings.  If I turn Auto Build Roof OFF and correct the walls, I get exposed plywood, artifacts and foundation issues.   I upgraded to Pro, but managing those roof planes is not easy.  I can’t get them to work.

 

I don't have CAD skills.  This product is great for a novice doing basic kitchen and interior design.  It is NOT great for complicated roof systems.  The User Manual and videos are way too simplistic.  I would have no problem doing the roof if I had a simple rectangular house with a simple ceiling.       

 

Jo Ann's plan used soffits to cover up ceiling issues that were being created by the roof program, so I thought that was a commonly used technique.  I saw Solver’s comments that it is a technique if you don’t own Pro.  I've got to now study ceiling planes and roofing, but the videos and instructions are lacking.  More hours of struggle ahead.  Sigh.  Thank you DavidJPotter for pointing out the Reference Manual.  I had not seen that.  

 

2) Open Below has a bug when it comes to changing materials on one wall

 

The reason the fireplace is a miscellaneous wall in the room is because there is DEFINITELY a paint bug when using Open Below.  Open Below joins all the walls in the area.  Whether I use a paint can or the dialog box, I can not modify the material on just a SINGLE wall. If I change the material on one wall, it changes it for the entire area.  If I connect the fireplace wall to an Open Below wall, it turns white.  So I've had to do work arounds in order to get a visual of what the fireplace would look like.  

 

I’m documenting my struggles here in case someone is considering upgrading to Pro to help with ceiling and roofing issues.  It did not make things easier with respect to the ceiling or the roof.  The manual roofing tools are complicated and the support materials are lacking.  I’ve easily spent 200+ hours on this program and way too much of that time has been spent on battles with the roof and ceiling.  It continues to be my nemesis.  There ought to be 5 more videos showing an assortment of complicated roof situations — especially with respect to remodels vs new home design.    

 

I will post a review on Amazon soon.  

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

[solver]

A few suggestions.

 

Start by drawing walls to accurately reflect the house as is. Set ceiling heights, floor structures etc and build the foundation (check Auto Rebuild Foundation). Ignore the roof.

 

Your goal is to get the structure correct -- minus the roof. Don't add doors, windows, furniture, paint, cabinets etc, just focus on the structure.

 

Once done, save this file as your base.

 

Make a copy and start working on the roof. Change the defaults -- pitch, overhang etc, and make changes to walls (gable). Auto build the roof. Your goal is to create an accurate, as built model of the house.

 

If the auto build is close, but not perfect, turn off auto build and make manual changes. 

 

There are a bunch of YouTube videos on roofs. https://www.youtube.com/user/ChiefArchitectInc/search?query=roof 

 

also

 

 

The Chief Architect and Home Designer videos are applicable as they have the same basic roof tools.

 

David also has a bunch of videos on YouTube.

 

Try to understand the concept, instead of looking for a match to your specific situation.

 

I'll recommend you start a new plan, draw a simple structure and use it to experiment. Manual roofs are not difficult, but do take a bit of practice. 

 

There is nothing magic about a roof plane. They may be deleted, copied, moved up and down, reshaped etc. I normally work in a Camera View for rough edits, then switch to plan to finish.

 

Again, the goal is to create an accurate, as built of the existing house.

 

Once done, save it, make a copy and start on the remodel plan.

 

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You don't need the 2nd floor Open Below room. Raise the ceiling height in the rooms where it changes, delete, or pull back existing roof planes, and draw 2 new roof planes to cover it. Join the new roof planes to the old.

 

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Only when the structure is correct should you add in all the extras.

 

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Pro has all the tools needed, but you do need to learn them. The roof tools make it easy to do more complex roofs, when compared with lesser titles, but you need to understand the roof tools, and know how to use them. 

[Jo_Ann]

Skylights: You are your own nemesis.
The skylights you are attempting to place (in the kitchen cabinet area) will never work, not in the software and not in the real world. You have an intersecting roof ( part of the original roof) on both sides of the new vaulted addition (in that area).  Skylights will not build over roof intersections. Skylights will not show through soffits, either.

Wall material problem: 'Open Below' has nothing at all to do will your wall color problem.  You are your own nemesis.
Open the living room dbx.  You have specified white textured plaster on the wall covering tab. DELETE.   Now open the wall you wanted to add the lap siding to.  On the wall covering tab, you have specified the color 'bone' for the wall.  DELETE. Add the lap material on the 'materials' tab for the wall.
You can now join your fireplace wall to the front wall, and it will not turn white.

[DavidJPotter]

My take on your problems

 

DJP

[designer468]

 

Thank you all for your advice!  I was reaching such peak frustration that I thought I should step away from the program for a couple of days.  I'm not ready to throw in the towel, because I'd like to master the roofing (or at least not be totally frustrated by them).  But I figured I needed to be in a more calm state before tackling the roof.  :-D

 

Thank you David for that video.  My architect's roof is slightly different and I need to reproduce her exact design. 

That said, your video is an awesome tutorial on roofing and I'm going to watch it carefully to learn the techniques.  I also need to talk to my architect about dead valleys.  That has me concerned.

 

By stumbling on that one other video you had posted, I also learned that it's much better to use google to search for tutorials.  The Home Designer website only brought up 2018 tutorials.  Google and YouTube searches produce a lot more videos (by Home Designer and other users).  I'm adding this for anyone new who might be reading this thread. 

 

Solver ... I have been thinking the same thing.  I probably need to start from the ground up. I can easily copy the cabinets over.  

 

I have two questions about approach if I start over.

 

The remodel will take that one rectangular section of the house, raise the walls to 10'9", add a gable roof that is 5" pitch.  The old part of the house has a 3" pitch.  I can do this in two ways:

1)  Draw the walls at 8' high.  Then select the rectangular room and raise those walls to 10'9".  Then turn on auto roof to get whatever roof it puts on, turn it off and modify it myself.

OR

2) Keep auto roof on.  Draw the walls at 8' high.  Create a second story over that rectangular area and Open Below.  Set that second story roof to be 5" pitch and gabled.  Turn OFF auto roof and reduce the second story walls so that the overall height is 10'9".  Then I'll have to manually do the tie in between the old roof and new, following my architect's design.

 

Which approach would you all recommend?  I'm leaning towards (2), but I struggle with changing materials on Open Below walls.  But I need to try Jo Ann's recommendations.

 

My second question is about interior walls: 

I noticed that the videos from experienced users often use Interior 6 walls in strategic places.  Presumably those are weight bearing.  If I put an Interior 6 wall in a certain location, will that trigger Auto Roof Builder to put the peak in that location?  

 

Thank you again for all your help.  I'm determined to learn this and appreciate all of your tutoring.

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

[solver]

Using a 2nd floor Open Below space is like using a soffit for a ceiling plane -- it works, but isn't needed.

 

The simple suggestion is to use the manual roof tools to create the roof. Set your defaults, auto build the roof getting as close as you can with simple settings. Then use the manual tools to complete the roof.

 

Take a look at this plan. I deleted the 2nd floor, raised the ceiling in the central part, changed the pitch from 3 to 5 and set the end walls as gable.

 

Auto built the roof. Looks close to me. A few manual adjustments may be all that is needed.

 

designer468_house-2c-k2-living2 (eric A).zip

[Jo_Ann]

Your current plan has NO dead valleys.   BUT...what you need to do is...find out from your architect EXACTLY how the remaining original house roof is to be built/rejoined to intersect the new raised roof of the addition.   The most recent elevations you posted show next to nothing to explain that.  ONLY then will you have a chance at accurately recreating it in your plan.

[solver]

And I still think this is the way to do the roof.