How to set/change pivot point (Focal Length?) when using mouse-orbit camera in Perspective Overview

[tim27613]

Home Designer Pro 2023 on Windows 11 Pro.

 

My plan overview: 2.3 acre sloped lot with house and separate workshop, drainage creek, 3 retaining walls, numerous landscaping trees and shrubs, etc.

 

I typically open my plan and also open a separate Camera view (Perspective Full Overview). I then orbit around, zooming in and out, etc. using the Mouse Orbit Camera.

 

Here is my scenario:

Initially the mouse orbit camera has a short focal length, or pivot point (not sure what to call it). This is the dashed line extending from the camera itself in PLAN view.

Anyway, I'll call it "Focal Length" here. I notice that the focal length starts out very small, so when I hold down the LEFT mouse button in the Mouse-Orbit camera, I can spin around easily and look at any item from various angles very easily.

 

However, somehow as I navigate this view the camera's Focal Length gets Extremely long, so then when I try to orbit around and look at something from a different angle I am flying around to the other side of the universe (LOL, that is NOT what I want to do).

 

My "fix" for this is to go to my PLAN view, find the camera, click on the extremely long dashed line, ZOOM way out to find the end of the dashed line, grab the end and drag it back close to the camera. Then I can go back to Perspective Overview and continue on my way, orbiting around various point very easily - UNTIL it happens again, which is usually very soon as I orbit and zoom around this view.

 

My questions are:

1. Is there any way (hot key, setting, etc.) I can prevent the Focal Length from getting extremely long?

2. Or, is there an easy way to change (shrink/control) the Focal Length while in Perspective Overview.

 

Thanks,

Tim

 

 

 

 

[Rookie65]

Did you look at edit>default>camera tools>Perspective full overview>plan display?

Or you could even try looking through your reference manual

[tim27613]

Hi Keith.

 

The only setting I see there that seems to be plausibly related to this is "FOV indicator length" which is set to the default I suppose which is 200"

 

When I go to PLAN mode and drag the dashed line back to the camera, it is usually extremely long, approx. 200 or 300 feet so that doesn't seem like the culprit.

 

Also, I did first try reading the tech reference and googling, and this forum, etc. I also called Chief Architect and they didn't have any ideas.

 

Hey...sometimes when  I scroll/zoom in, it starts out FAST (when the Focal Length is huge) but then starts slowing down (and indeed the Focal Length does shrink) but I cannot make this happen on-demand. Hence I wonder if there is some hint or tip to shrink the Focal Length beside just aimlessly scrolling/zooming trying to shrink it.... probably just to go to PLAN mode and do that "fix" if that's the only way to do this.

 

 

[tim27613]

 

So... I decided to take Keith's advice and "you could even try looking through your reference manual". (Spoiler: ALL roads lead to Rome (i.e., PLAN VIEW))

 

Note: I am a little peeved since IMHO this is a very annoying oversight/flaw in the usability of the product. BUT, I'm also having a teeny tiny bit o fun in this reply. Enjoy!

 

In Home Designer Pro 2023 Reference Manual - Displaying 3D Views, the manual says:

Quote

A variety of tools and settings allow you to control the appearance of 3D views. There are also numerous ways to adjust a  3D view’s position, focal point and field of view. See Editing 3D Views on page 777.

 

So, I did a SEARCH of the manual (Focal Point has 50 search hits) and I can only see TWO ways to have any kind of control over the "FOCAL POINT".

1. The FIRST way is on "camera view creation"
2. The SECOND way is to "return to PLAN view and drag the Focal Point handle" (My existing fallback workaround or "fix" for this HORRIBLE TERRIBLE Design)

There is kind of a THIRD way. It doesn't involve "control" BUT I must say it's both FUN and EXCITING... you simply treat this program as a Video Game. It's true!!!

That's right, step right up folks, spin the wheel, roll the dice... round and round we go, where the Focal Point stops, nobody knows!

 

As you navigate a 3D View in the default Mouse-Orbit-Camera the camera's Focal Point WILL change. There is no rhyme or reason to it (at least not that Chief Architect will tell us).

 

Wait. What? You want to modify the Focal Point??? Sorry folks, you can't do that in 3D View, no! You MUST go back to PLAN VIEW for that (The moose out front should have told you).

We, the programmers can randomly change your camera's Focal Point in 3D view (WE can do it, WE don't even need a reason! It's called GAMIFICATION and it's all the rage now man!)

But the USER can't change it in 3D View. There's already a way to do that in PLAN VIEW and we spent good money making that work for crying out loud!!!!

 

 

The FIRST way to have any kind of control over the Focal Point is under Creating Camera Views where the manual says:

All Camera views are created using the same method.

To create a camera view

1. In plan view, select the desired camera tool. The mouse pointer displays the camera icon

2. Click and drag a line to define the view direction.

       A. Camera Position (click)

       B. Line of Sight (drag)

       C. Focal Point (release)      <-- So, you ClickDown on the spot to create a camera, drag pointer to where you want your Focal Point to be, and ClickUp/release.

       D. Field of View

. . .

The end of the line is the focal point of the view, the point the camera rotates around.

 

So, when you create a Camera View, you can set the INITIAL Focal Point.

 

 

The SECOND way to have any type of control over the Focal Point is under Editing 3D Views where the manual says:

USING THE EDIT HANDLES

Return to plan view without closing the 3D view. See Working in Multiple Views on page 105.   

Using the Select Objects tool, select the camera object. When a camera symbol is selected, it displays four edit handles. 

• Drag the Line of Sight handle to change the camera angle without moving the focal point.
• Drag the Move handle to relocate the camera while maintaining its relative angle. l
• Drag the Focal Point handle to reposition the focal point and change the line of sight without moving the camera.
• Drag the Rotate handle to rotate the camera’s line of sight about its center.

So, when the program decides for some unknown and unknowable reason to change the camera's Focal Point your ONLY way to modify the Focal Point is to "Return to the plan view" and "Drag the Focal Point handle to reposition the focal point..."

 

I'm sorry, but this is simply HORRIBLE design.

I wouldn't mind so much being FORCED to use PLAN VIEW to set/modify the Focal Point IFF you didn't randomly CHANGE the Focal Point without my knowledge or consent in 3D View!

 

Bottom Line:

If you're gonna mess with Focal Point in 3D View, then PLEASE allow us to fix Focal Point in 3D View.

 

[y-g-m-n]

I thought MOUSE wheel controls zoom?

[solver]

@tim27613

 

Check out the last 2 tools on this list.

 

 

 

[tim27613]

Wow! Thank you very much Eric!

 

I had tried every combination I can think of while using the Mouse-Orbit Camera, so far I found these (some by trial and error, and some by a closer review of the Reference Manual)

 

So, for now I have learned the following "Move Camera With Mouse" features:

    Ctrl+Scroll   =   Zoom in/out speed/distance decreases by approx. an order of magnitude

    Ctrl+Shift+Scroll   = Zoom in/out speed/distance decreases by approx. TWO orders of magnitude

    LeftButton+DragMouse = Repositions the camera's viewpoint as you drag it around in an "orbit" around the Focal Point

    AltKey+LeftButton+DragMouse = Automatically changes the Camera FUNCTIONAILITY (and its on-screen pointer) from Mouse-Orbit Camera to Mouse-Tilt Camera

         i.e.,  Changes the 3D View on-screen mouse pointer         FROM         TO       

    RightButton+DragMouse = same    Ref. Manual actually says: "You can temporarily activate Mouse-Tilt Camera by  using the right mouse button while the Mouse-Orbit Camera or Mouse-Dolly Camera mode is active."

     MiddleButton+DragMouse = Temporarily activates the "Panning Mode" camera, , allowing you to slide the camera Up, Dn, Lt, Rt which is often helpful

             Note: In "Mouse-Pan Mode" you can also use Ctrl+MiddleButton+Drag and Ctrl+Shift+MiddleButton+Drag to "fine tune" the camera panning action.

 

The last one RightButton+DragMouse is actually a pretty usable "fix" for having the Focal Point change exponentially out from under you.

That combined with the ability to SLOW YOUR SCROLLING speed/distance using Ctrl+Scroll and Ctrl+Shift+Scroll probably do what I need. After a while these mouse and key combinations might even become second nature.

 

Well done sir! Thank you very much!

 

Edited August 3 by tim27613
Mentioning another Mouse key feature

[tim27613]

FYI, I just discovered another Move Camera With Mouse "Keyboard Modifier" feature:

    Shift+Scroll   =   Zoom in/out speed/distance INCREASES by approx. an order of magnitude

   

Are these Move Camera With Mouse "Keyboard Modifiers" documented anywhere?

 

[Robborito]

On 8/2/2024 at 1:13 AM, tim27613 said:

Is there any way (hot key, setting, etc.) I can prevent the Focal Length from getting extremely long?

In plan view you can move the camera closer to the target- or move the target closer to the camera;

In the full camera specification change the field of view angle setting to something akin to slr camera angle (35-60);

That's my suggestions. Works for my views.

Jeff

[Robborito]

On 8/2/2024 at 6:36 PM, y-g-m-n said:

I thought MOUSE wheel controls zoom?

Correct in my HDPro.

[tim27613]

 

I'll try to re-focus this question that I may have asked poorly earlier...

 

My terrain/lot perimeter in Plan-View is fairly large, at the center is my lot (2+ acres) and also contains portions of the adjacent lots.

 

I often do "what I call "drone view" which is Perspective Full Overview, using the default Left-Click and DRAG with the Mouse-Orbit camera (the way I assume most folks use it).

I can fly around the sky easily, looking at everything from different heights, perspectives, etc. It's quite fun to do and allows me to have a birds-eye view of my structures, the terrain, sightlines, etc.

 

This always starts out wonderfully, with the Focal Point set to somewhere near center of the property. However, after some maneuvering around using the Mouse-Orbit camera, the

Focal-Length (looking at it in Plan-View) goes:

   FROM: ------------------------------------------------------------------------+

   TO:       ----------------------------------------------------------------- (seems like the PLUS sign at the end sometimes ends up in the Delta Quadrant LOL) -------------------------------------------+

 

I know I can always go back to Plan View and (1) Find the Focal Point at end of the dashed Focal Length line" and DRAG it back towards the camera, but I just wonder?

1. Is there some bug that exponentially grows the Focal Length for some reason? I really cannot tell what I am doing to tell this thing "Please set my Focal Point to the Delta Quadrant"

2. If not a bug, is there some method to the madness, that I can control without leaving the Perspective Full Overview 3D view?

 

I know I can right-click in 3D view and reset the Focal Point, but in severe cases, by the time I realize I need to reset the Focal Point, I have already been sent to the neutral zone by simply Left-Click and DRAGGING the Mouse-Orbit camera and have gone into hyperspace so it can be difficult to "find my way home". Feels a bit like Star Trek Voyager lost in the Delta Quadrant.

 

At that point it is easier to just kill that view and start another one...

 

Thanks,

Tim