How to construct oversized shed dormer wall

[BalsamKnoll]

Another question for you knowledgeable folks: my project calls for what is - in my mind - essentially an oversized shed dormer wall that spans one wall of the house (see pics). I've read the shed dormer tutorial (ref KB-00367) and have unsuccessfully attempted to build it using a knee wall with wall breaks, following the tutorial. The "dormer" (using that word for lack of a better term for this feature) interferes with the roof plane over the garage. I've since scrapped my work on that feature for addressing at a later date, so I don't have a plan to attach that matches the error message screenshot.

How would you build this? I'm using Home Designer Architectural 2019.

(The blueprint SS are from a project commissioned by me; I'm using HDArch for interior design & landscape purposes.)

Draft 2 plus porch drafts.plan

[solver]

The dormer tool is a pain, but it does work if you follow the instructions. Consider creating a simple one room structure and getting the dormer to work there. then take what you have learned and apply it to your plan.

 

You can also do the dormers manually. Again, try this in a simple practice plan.

 

On the 2nd floor, draw walls where you want the dormer forming a room. Set the ceiling height of this room as it should be, and set the roof pitch in the front wall. You will have one room on the 2nd floor that is everything but the dormer. Set its ceiling height to 1-1/2". 

 

Build the roof. The program will build a dormer. 

 

Once the dormer and all other roof planes are correct, turn off Auto Rebuild Roofs, and set the 2nd floor ceiling height correctly.

 

Note that you do not need to make the 2nd floor room 1-1/2". If your house has taller walls then use that dimension.

 

The key is to experiment with simple plans to gain an understanding of how the program works.

[BalsamKnoll]

Thank you, Eric. I did play around with the basic tutorials after reading them, so I am familiar with the dormer tool and manually, but there were elements of this plan that have stumped me.

I was finally able to sit down tonight to work on the oversized dormer. I have it built, but the roof planes are wrong and I've spent hours playing around trying to fix them. Is there something obvious I'm overlooking? The plane of the roof outside of the dormer should extend downward, but it isn't. I've tried adding a wall break and deleting the "interior" exterior wall (used to make the dormer). I've also tried playing with the ceiling heights in the second level. Also, the roof line on the garage is messed up as well. I'm not sure of where to go from here. 

Draft back dormer.plan

[DavidJPotter]

It may be that you can emulate this roof in Home Designer Architectural. Since I have a choice, I would prefer to tackle such a design with at least Home Designer Pro. It IS more money than Architectural and does require that one learn its more professional grade tools but at least you are no longer dependant upon a perfect series of pre-settings to achieve an intended product. There are users here who are veteran Architectural, Suite, Essentials and Interiors who could probably get your roofs done with what they have. If you intend to stay with Architectural you will need to STOP, as you say "playing around" hoping to, by trial and error obtain an acceptable result. Architectural and other such titles require precise pre-settings to obtain a result (not guessing and hoping). This requires intense study and practice which develops within you, competence and personal certainty. 

 

I am not saying that users of Pro or Chief Premier are lazy, I am saying that those applications provide more certain tools for direct manipulation of roof planes making the process of roof design potentially easier and more certain than pre-settings and then depending upon pre-programmed responses of a mechanical device (Architectural).

 

Eric said to you: ?"The key is to experiment with simple plans to gain an understanding of how the program works." I would add after you have carefully studied all relative data in your Reference Guide about creating roofs and dormers.

 

Your plan is a challenge for Architectural to create, requiring knowledge and competence, not luck or randomness.

 

On inspecting your posted plan, the first thing I noticed is that your plan does not match the Architect's plan. That being the case it is no mystery why you are not getting your intended results. Roof building in Architectural, Suite, Interiors, and Essentials is predicated on the location of walls and then settings you create in those walls along with proper settings as to "Ceiling height" in applicable Room Specification Dialogs. These factors must be correct to obtain acceptable results.

 

DJP

[solver]

I got this far.

 

 

It does not look too good and is very fragile -- that is, a tiny change will cause the roof to go crazy.

 

I see other items on your elevations that will be difficult to model with Architectural too.

 

My suggestion is if you want an accurate model, either upgrade to Pro, or pay someone with Pro or Chief (far easier in Chief) to model the exterior accurately. You could then complete the interior and add colors/materials etc.

[BalsamKnoll]

Thank you for the advice, both of you. I've posted on the CA seeking services forum because I don't think I can put any more time into learning Pro, though I'd like to eventually make the upgrade and learn it when not on such a tight timeline. I naively thought my plan wouldn't be difficult to draft, but managing the ceiling heights and roof lines with a 1.5 story is too much for me right now.

[Jo_Ann]

I got this far, with this model created in Architectural 2018  (traced over your model opened with Pro 2019 trial).  This was the only way to save a plan that I could upload.  The dimensions are very close, so maybe this plan will help you.
I was unable to raise the large dormer ceiling height to 95 5/8" without making the roof go wacky, but at least the dormer windows are able to be set at the standard floor to ceiling height of 80".
Porch Note:  The south wall of the screened porch is set at 7°, while the north wall had to remain set at 11° to make the gable look correct in my version (HDA2018).  Strange.    When opened in the trial Pro 2019, the gable looks wacky and the north porch wall needs to agree with the south porch wall (7°)?   Pro 2019 does not seem to follow directives made in plans created in earlier software versions.  I don't know if HDA2019 will also display that way.

If you plan to use this software for your business, then you should upgrade to Pro.  The extra expense and the time taken to learn how to use it,  will be compensated by the time NOT spent in frustration.  A hefty upgrade rebate will compensate for the dollars that you spent on Architectural, if taken before the rebate expires.

 

BalsamKnoll traced plan.plan

[Rookie65]

I will second Jo_Ann on that last statement. I have been using this program since 2013 for my business and it has served me very well. I initially bought the Architectural version, yet after 3-4 days and seeing what was missing, I knew I needed and upgraded to Pro and haven't looked back. There is so much more you can do with Pro and it gives some more flexibility to be "creative" with materials, etc.

[BalsamKnoll]

4 hours ago, Jo_Ann said:

I got this far, with this model created in Architectural 2018  (traced over your model opened with Pro 2019 trial).  This was the only way to save a plan that I could upload.  The dimensions are very close, so maybe this plan will help you.
I was unable to raise the large dormer ceiling height to 95 5/8" without making the roof go wacky, but at least the dormer windows are able to be set at the standard floor to ceiling height of 80".
Porch Note:  The south wall of the screened porch is set at 7°, while the north wall had to remain set at 11° to make the gable look correct in my version (HDA2018).  Strange.    When opened in the trial Pro 2019, the gable looks wacky and the north porch wall needs to agree with the south porch wall (7°)?   Pro 2019 does not seem to follow directives made in plans created in earlier software versions.  I don't know if HDA2019 will also display that way.

If you plan to use this software for your business, then you should upgrade to Pro.  The extra expense and the time taken to learn how to use it,  will be compensated by the time NOT spent in frustration.  A hefty upgrade rebate will compensate for the dollars that you spent on Architectural, if taken before the rebate expires.

 

BalsamKnoll traced plan.plan

OH MY GOODNESS. Thank you so very much! I cannot tell you how deeply appreciative I am that you took the time to work on my plan. I now see where I needed to make changes, but wow, I wouldn't have figured it out on my own.

I'm just starting out in project management and design - I've done a handful of remodel jobs but this is my first new build, and I really didn't know if Pro would be worth it when I decided to buy the software. I am anxious about making the investment, but it seems like the wisest decision.

 

Again, my deepest thanks.  

[Jo_Ann]

I did a more simple version of the large dormer,  (created with Architectural 2018)  this time with the default ceiling height of 95 5/8", and it looks like pic 1  (with auto roof turned on).
When opened with Pro 2018 (trial) it still looks the same as pic 1  (auto-roof still turned on).
When opened with Pro 2019 (auto-roof on) it looks like pic 2.  WHY??
I know that it is easy to fix the roof planes with Pro's manual roof.  Then open the smaller dormers dbx, click 'OK' and they magically reappear, too.

But none of this should be necessary. 

I tried multiple settings to get this roof to auto build, without success.  Why is Pro 2019 not reading directives from a plan created in a 2018 version correctly?

Eric, DJP, anyone have an answer?  I'm stumped.

 

 

 

 

BalsamKnoll large dormer.plan