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WeebleSue

Two Story country cottage, roof woes (A frame with porch)

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This issue is similar to the Multiple Gable issue that was just recently posted. I'm not trying to follow an existing structure but I am trying to duplicate a house plan. That other plan (which I downloaded and tried to follow) did not have a porch or a section with a low pitch. I have spent quite a few hours now trying to straighten out this roof. I have gone through the help and this Forum and have used several of the ideas presented, which has gotten me this far. But I've hit some snags I cannot straighten out.

 

I am using HDA 2015.

 

The roof is supposed to be a full gable all the way down to the 1st floor, up to a point. The first floor porch and part of the master suite have a very low pitch (2/12). I have every wall on the 2nd floor set as a knee wall - and i get plenty of messages about them. I don't understand the messages or how to clear them.

 

Looking at the front with the long wraparound porch, I cannot set the porch as a "Porch." If I do, the roof flattens out much more than I want. I have to set it as a Deck with no roof. There is an exterior wall on Floor 2 where the upper pitch is supposed to start, so I can't figure out why the low pitch gets extended into the house area.

 

Looking at the back where the garage sticks out, no matter what I do, I cannot get a single flat roof to happen over the house area. Parts stick out here and there. I have changed room heights, set walls, etc., but can't figure them out. When I fix one, another gets worse! I had it working when I used "Extend slope downward" but then I couldn't set the wall as a knee wall. I'm so confused!

 

The end opposite of the garage is all messed up. It is supposed to be a gable roof from crest to 1st floor, then flat roof like the porch should be. I can't get that room on the 2nd floor to work out. I've tried so many things!

 

Where the garage meets the house, there should be 2 separate gable walls but they combine together into one very tall corner. The other plan separated the garage from the house to get it to work. But this garage is attached...is there no way to separate the roofs?

 

I have added walls and deleted them and re-added. I have changed walls from internal to external and back again. I have changed walls to knee walls and removed it ad nauseum.

 

Can someone help point me in the direction to what I'm doing wrong? Is what I'm looking for not possible in Architect?

 

Cottage1 shows the rear with the bits jutting up here and there, and the end where it's completely messed up.

 

Cottage2 shows a different view of the messed up end and the garage/house corner that joins into one tall gable instead of 2 separate ones.

 

Cottage3 shows what happens when I set the porch as a "porch" with a 2/12 pitch. The rest of the roof flattens out over the house - which is set at default 10/12 pitch. Compare to the more correct Cottage2. This happens even if I add a roof to the Deck. How can I get a porch roof over ONLY the porch?

 

Cottage_pic shows what I'm aiming for - just in reverse.

Cottage_pic_rear is the sketch of the rear of the home. The left of this picture shows what is expected of the messed up end - how the gable goes down to the 1st floor and there is a portion that has the flat pitch.

 

I'm also attaching my plan.

 

TIA...

Susan

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67493.plan

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How the house and garage connect is not clear from your images, and I believe this will be the most difficult part of the plan.

 

Starting with a practice house.

 

Draw the rectangle to represent the house. Build a second floor and set the 2 end walls to be full gable. Use the defaults for ceiling heights. Break the front wall where you want the gable, and set that wall section to full gable.

 

Use the Room Divider to outline the porch. Set the room type to Deck, change the settings to have a roof. Set the pitch on the 4 outside walls to the proper pitch.

 

Turn on Auto Build Roof, if off, and view in 3D. The roofs should look correct, except for the vertical distance between them.

 

Go to the second floor and reduce the ceiling height until the upper roof drops down on to the porch roof.

 

If the house were all you needed, you would turn off Auto Build Roofs, and raise the 2nd floor ceiling height back up.

 

 

 

 

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Is this what you are trying to do?

 

I did this quickly using manual roofs, so there are plenty of problems.

 

We need something to start from.

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As near as I can tell:

 

cottage pic and cottage rear pic do not match each other.

Your plan footprint  (even if reversed)  does not match the cottage images.

 

You should never have added interior walls/cabinets/ fixrures until you had the footprint and roof structure correct.

 

You should start over.

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The pic labelled rear is actually the Side elevation Jo  looking at the end of the garage (where the trees are in color photo)  assuming the roof on the main house is the same both sides with the Dormer and 1/2 round window, though honestly I am not sure what is being called the front and back....have not opened the plan though.

 

I fully agree , always amazes me how often people start "decorating" before the structure is even right.....

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Look again Mick. That is the rear elevation. Side entrance garage.

 

Do agree on starting over.

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Good advice - get the basic structure done, add the 2nd story, play with the roof, and THEN detail. :unsure:  At one point I actually did delete the 2nd story and start all over again, but not knowing fully what I was doing, my 2nd try didn't turn out so well either. The result is what you saw there. 
 
 
Eric - I will give this a try. Thanks.
Solver - yes, that is what I am trying to do. But HD Architectural does not have manual roofs. :(
Jo Ann and all - All i did was turn the 3D picture around and take another screen shot. I assure you all of the shots of the cottage are of the same exact model without any change in between. I included the model because i figured my explanation and the screen shots might not be sufficient.
 
I guess my biggest question is that when you have this type of roof - whether the porch/deck is there or not, and the 2nd story is meant to have the full gable roof where it reaches down to the 1st floor, but the actual 2nd story footprint is smaller than the 1st story, do you still make the 2nd story external walls right on top of the 1st story external walls?
 
For instance in this other plan, the 2nd story is much smaller than the first. Do i put the external walls of the 2nd story where I've marked in blue?

NOTE - This is NOT the same plan as the file or pictures that I posted before!

 

Love you guys! Thanks for the guidance.
Susan

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Look again Mick. That is the rear elevation. Side entrance garage.

 

Do agree on starting over.

 

I was assuming the garage doors faced the street , making it the Front ,but as I said I can't tell from the pics what is the front or back .

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Good advice - get the basic structure done, add the 2nd story, play with the roof, and THEN detail. :unsure:  At one point I actually did delete the 2nd story and start all over again, but not knowing fully what I was doing, my 2nd try didn't turn out so well either. The result is what you saw there. 

 

 

Eric - I will give this a try. Thanks.

Solver - yes, that is what I am trying to do. But HD Architectural does not have manual roofs. :(

Jo Ann and all - All i did was turn the 3D picture around and take another screen shot. I assure you all of the shots of the cottage are of the same exact model without any change in between. I included the model because i figured my explanation and the screen shots might not be sufficient.

 

I guess my biggest question is that when you have this type of roof - whether the porch/deck is there or not, and the 2nd story is meant to have the full gable roof where it reaches down to the 1st floor, but the actual 2nd story footprint is smaller than the 1st story, do you still make the 2nd story external walls right on top of the 1st story external walls?

 

For instance in this other plan, the 2nd story is much smaller than the first. Do i put the external walls of the 2nd story where I've marked in blue?

NOTE - This is NOT the same plan as the file or pictures that I posted before!

 

Love you guys! Thanks for the guidance.

Susan

 

 

It's not the 2nd floor Roof reaching down , it the 1st floor reaching up, it does so until it hits the walls of the 2nd storey in the case of a partial second storey , build the 2nd floor with a Blank plan ( don't ref. the 1st floor) ,  turn on the reference layer and draw your own walls on the second floor as needed. The roof will then build on 1st floor walls where they are exposed and off second storey walls where they are exposed , and off the 3rd storey etc as you go up..... do a quick practice with 3-4 levels with a simple box house  each level 6 feet smaller than the last and you will see how it works.

 

In some situations you may run into the 12 Bug   (see my Sig for a post on it)  with Porch roofs  , but if you continue to do these complicated Roof designs you might want to consider moving up to Pro  and it's manual Roof planes .

 

M.

 

here's a quick 5 min plan so you see what I mean above

3 storey Partial Floor.plan

 

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The 1st pic is the original cottage.  Pics 2&3 are the vertical flip of the cottage.

My floor plan might help you with your settings.  Pay close attention to the garage/house NON connection on level1.
Delete your 2nd floor and rebuild using blank plan with finished ceiling height as shown  (or do a 'save as', then delete the 2nd floor).   Align walls as shown.
Pay attention to ALL floor/ceiling settings, roof pitches, and walls.

The roof between the front breakfast room and garage is a problem area with auto roofs.  You could add a sloped soffit to make it look better.

When the roof is correct, turn off auto build roof, and rejoin the walls between the garage and house.  Invisible walls will probably be needed to maintain some floor/ceiling heights in that area.  Go slowly.

Redraw the interior walls on the 2nd floor and raise the ceiling heights within the usable rooms.

Because I had to trace the floor plan (to work on it in HDA10) the dimensions are not exact, but they are close. It may not be perfect, but I hope this helps.   :)
 
 

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WeebleSue cottage flip.plan

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Oops. Ran into a snag.  When opening a 2010 file with a 2015 version, sometimes things don't display the same.

 

When opened with 2015, the garage door wall appears raised.  It is caused by the invisible room I needed to set up to get the roof to build correctly.

 

Open the room dbx (invisible room) , set the room type as 'garage', then bury the floor structure (floor 'C') at -40", to get rid of it.

 

Reset the garage doors 'floor to bottom' at 0". 

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Thanks, Mick.  It was a pita.

 

I can imagine ...... hopefully Santa puts Pro in you Stocking this year.....

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Ha Ha!  I would rather he gave me a winning super lotto ticket!  :lol:

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I made an adjustment to the stairs, so my roof looks a bit different.

 

 

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Solved - "Thanks" does not come close. I couldn't open the other 2 plans as I just have HDA 2015, but now I understand the options for this complicated roof.

 

I figure with the amount of time I've spent on this silly plan, if I put money towards my time, I have probably spent enough to justify the purchase of the Pro version! Fortunately I haven't yet run into another roof plan this difficult so I will hold off for a little bit longer. Gotta save all my pennies to build this monster!!

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Glad to hear that the issues are resolved!  I reckon that you learned a few new tricks during the process?!

Are you going to post a pic of your success  (with your personal design touches) ?

 

Nice job,  LawB10.

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