Help with roof

[RichardG]

I've been modelling my house and have everything completed but just can't get the roof quite right. 

 

I've attached a photo of the roof I'm trying to achieve and also a screenshot of the problem and the plan if anyone wants to have a go.

 

The problem is that the shed type roof on the kitchen keeps attaching to the front porch roof. The only way I've found round the problem is to raise the height of the kitchen roof and lowing the height of the porch roof until the snap stops, however, this looks awful and not useful. Is there anyway of stopping this snap between roof planes? I've also tried using the 2nd pitch option to create a dutch type roof on the porch but that didn't help either.

 

As an aside I've also got a problem with the below floor on one room and don't seem to be able to correct it. If I click on the room definition the floor is set to default (as are all the others) but this one is incorrect.

 

target.jpg - what I'm aiming for

roof.jpg - screen shot of problem

floor.jpg screen shot of floor problem.

pbc.plan - the plan

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Richard

 

Edit: Updated plan as I'd deleted all fixtures and fitting to make it smaller but managed to remove a wall as well, sorry.

 

Home Designer Architectural 2015 (build 16.4.1.20OSX) on Retina Macbook, Yosemite (OSX10.10.3)

pbc.plan

[DavidJPotter]

Welcome to the Forum!

 

Important posts/threads you should read:

 

Welcome New Users

How to get good answers

 

How to attach pictures

 

https://hometalk.chiefarchitect.com/index.php?app=core&module=help

DJP

[Kbird1]

You may have run into what I call the 12" Bug , it has been around forever ,but not enough complaints I guess as they have never fixed it in CA or HD. If you search 12" Bug you may find other threads on it here too. I'll have a look at the plan , but usually if your room heights are 12" different at least its works as expected.

 

you can sometimes fool the program by bringing the walls in on the shed roof part by an 1" or two each side so the don't line up with the main house, then it builds right.

 

I think the Floor height issue is just that you have set that room as a porch? so it auto gets a 100mm thick concrete floor   ,whereas the rest has the normal 300mm thick floor , and you notice it now as it doesn't look like you have built the foundation yet

 

M.

[Kbird1]

So Far ......

 

Looking at your plan vs your photo the Roof on the main house is setup wrong , as well as on the Extension (Pitch -too high) and Room height-not equal to Porch) and the porch roof (pitch) is too high.

 

Main house

-Are your 1st and 2nd floor heights correct? (model looks diff than pic but maybe just the pic?) and they are different in plan

-45° pitch vs maybe 33° ? in photo

-check the option for Boxed eaves ,set overhang to 300mm? (or whatever is real)

-you have sheetrock for the Soffit, fascia and skylight material --change to Brite and charcoal for the skylights

-Fix auto attic wall on north side of extension by pulling outer part left across other part of wall till the join back together

 

Extension

-set room height to match Porch or vica versa  (which is correct?) photo show fascia heights almost the same ,so assume room height is close as pitch looks similar.

       ( ***set extension room at default height and porch at 1870mm and roof works (after I set porch as Entry and default floor structure) ...aka the Bug I was talking about earlier)

-check/set pitch correctly if not  ...18-20° ?  (use Level App on phone)

-change overhangs to 50mm ? on sides 200 mm on main wall

 

as you can see  I played with your upstairs windows too ...set Arch to Broken 100mm

 

I'll play some more when I have time ,

 

PS what does the roof on the back of the Extension really look like?  same issue?  currently each room is set different heights

 

 

 

[DavidJPotter]

Here is your edited file (edited in Pro 2015), I could not get it right in Architectural but easily succeeded using Pro 2015

 

https://youtu.be/R_FwmlA33hs

 

DJP

pbc.plan

[RichardG]

Blimey, thanks for the feedback, thats all going to take me a while to take in. However, the main house was 2 Victorian farm workers cottages and then joined to make one cottage and then extensions added over the 150 years. Most of the floors are different heights and the ceilings are different between the two old cottages and the extensions...however, I'm sure I have things wrong. The walls are all different thicknesses too and solid brick mostly. 

 

When I removed the fixtures I also removed a wall by accident, I've updated the plan and here's a picture of the rear, same problem as front.

 

Thanks

 

 

Richard

 

[RichardG]

Here is your edited file (edited in Pro 2015), I could not get it right in Architectural but easily succeeded using Pro 2015

 

https://youtu.be/R_FwmlA33hs

 

DJP

 

Thank you David, that was very useful, especially seeing the power of the professional version. I'll save the plan so I have a master copy to work from if case no one else comes up with a solution using only Architectural. Unfortunately as much as I'd like to I just can't justify the Pro version at the moment..

 

Thanks again

 

Richard

[Jo_Ann]

Your real house pic and your program 3d image do not look like they are proportionate to each other.
Did you measure correctly?
I reset the ceilings back to default, but it still doesn't look right.  I set the main house roof to 32 degrees (your program pitch looked w-a-y too steep).

This method involves a little bit of program trickery, but if you do it right, you will get the results that are shown. 

FIRST:
Set the roof overhang to about 75mm (reduced) on each of the 2 kitchen gable walls (wall dbx / roof / overhang).

Follow what's shown in the floor plan pic, as this will create a room separation between the front porch and the main house wall  (and back room, and the main house wall).
The grey area is the 'new' room.  Adjust the depth of the room  (you want the high shed roof overhang to barely touch the main house wall).

When you are certain that you will NEVER have to rebuild the roof, you should turn OFF 'auto build roof".
It is then safe to delete the invisible wall.  This will allow your ceiling to build correctly, and the roof should remain the same.
 

[katalyst777]

It's been quite some time ago, probably on the old forum, but I remember seeing that what Kbird is describing as a "12" bug" is actually "intended" or "expected functionality" or some such like that when roofs are that close, typically they should be one integrated system. 

It never hurts to actually submit this to the company's actual support folks though.  I get the impression this is one of the things that people just work around or upgrade for the added manual roof capabilities and don't report so nothing changes.

[solver]

I submitted the 12" bug in September 2014.

 

Reply from support:

 

 

Once again you have found something interesting. You can manually lower the roof planes by selecting them and opening the Roof Plan Specification dialog. Lock the pitch and lower the baseline height.

As for automatic roof generation, I’m not seeing a way to accomplish this. I’ll send it over to our developers to see what they can do with it. Once again I’ll let you know if they give me any additional information.

 

 

No word since their reply.

[Kbird1]

The 12" bug has been around since I started with CA software , it even pops up on Chieftalk occasionally too , but Eric's response is the only one I have ever seen regarding it, from CA's side. I am actually surprised the extension roof builds that well but in this case the two side rooms may make all the difference , as in the past if you tried a shed roof the exact same width on the end of a gable like that it wasn't unusual for the shed roof to cut the gable end off. I haven't played with it since last yr , perhaps they have quietly fixed the shed roof on gable end issue?

 

Personally I don't think having to turn off Auto Roof and having to do everything manually for the rest of the Project is a good option.

 

 

@ Eric....might be time to reply to that email with a link to this post. 

 

 

Now how did I know Jo would have a solution for this      

 

looks like to me the pitches / heights etc are wrong too, get all that right 1st then play with Jo's solution , on a copy of your plan 1st.

[Kbird1]

1st sorry Richard for taking over the thread but this may help you too

 

The "12 Bug"  as always bothered me, and it has always seemed as long as you were 12" apart in room heights on the same level you were ok , but after playing with different scenarios tonight to see if CA has worked on this quietly it appears not, and I noticed that the Addition width and Roof Pitch made a difference whether it "bugged" or didn't , though it always did at some point. So after playing with cross sections I think I may have it worked out, someone else should test it out as well but I think the pics are self explanatory, and Kat's comment on it being "expected behaviour" maybe correct (hardcoded in program) though it shouldn't happen in this case as the wall is marked Full Gable.

 

 

 

If the Addition walls line up with the Main house Walls , you get something totally different BTW.

 

VS

 

 

 

[RichardG]

Your real house pic and your program 3d image do not look like they are proportionate to each other.

Did you measure correctly?

I reset the ceilings back to default, but it still doesn't look right.  I set the main house roof to 32 degrees (your program pitch looked w-a-y too steep).

This method involves a little bit of program trickery, but if you do it right, you will get the results that are shown. 

FIRST:

Set the roof overhang to about 75mm (reduced) on each of the 2 kitchen gable walls (wall dbx / roof / overhang).

Follow what's shown in the floor plan pic, as this will create a room separation between the front porch and the main house wall  (and back room, and the main house wall).

The grey area is the 'new' room.  Adjust the depth of the room  (you want the high shed roof overhang to barely touch the main house wall).

When you are certain that you will NEVER have to rebuild the roof, you should turn OFF 'auto build roof".

It is then safe to delete the invisible wall.  This will allow your ceiling to build correctly, and the roof should remain the same.

 

 

Thank you Jo_Ann, that's a great tip to work round the problem for me and very clear instructions.

 

I haven't finished the house yet and still find myself checking dimensions when something does't look right or when I can't get the program to replicate what I have. I'm working on it....

 

Thanks again

 

Richard

[RichardG]

1st sorry Richard for taking over the thread but this may help you too

 

The "12 Bug"  as always bothered me, and it has always seemed as long as you were 12" apart in room heights on the same level you were ok , but after playing with different scenarios tonight to see if CA has worked on this quietly it appears not, and I noticed that the Addition width and Roof Pitch made a difference whether it "bugged" or didn't , though it always did at some point. So after playing with cross sections I think I may have it worked out, someone else should test it out as well but I think the pics are self explanatory, and Kat's comment on it being "expected behaviour" maybe correct (hardcoded in program) though it shouldn't happen in this case as the wall is marked Full Gable.

 

 

 

 

No problems with the thread, it's all useful stuff and I now better understand what you are describing. I'll do some better measuring and check the roof angles and then have a go at updating.

 

Thanks 

 

Richard