wazzubrad

2nd Level Walls Disappear After building Roof (Photos)

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Still pretty strange , there is no reason the Roof/walls shouldn't build right at any height you set , so I am not sure why raising the default ceiling height on the Main floor 3/8" fixes this weirdness ?. Though typically here the rough ceiling is 109 3/4 ( assuming 105 1/4" precut studs and 3 plates) or 96 3/4 (assuming 92 1/4 precut and 3 plates) ,which allows for 1/2" or 5/8 ceiling Drywall and then the wall drywall doesn't need cutting whether stood vertically or 2 sheets horizontal.

 

The 2nd funny roof over the entry /porch is cos the entry is at 12' like the kitchen , you can set the Entry to the same height as the Office (default) and the Roof will "fix itself" , then once your Roofs are built and auto rebuild Roofs is turned off you can reset the entry to 12' if desired without the new roof building again though you may  need to only go say 11'3" so the inside looks right too.

 

Is the Roof at the end of the garage supposed to be angled instead of straight either side of the bumpout?

 

There is a strange roof over the Master bedroom too you need to do some manual work on.

 

The anomalies and missing stucco etc above the kitchen is cos you have roof planes  protruding into the wall (Pic1) RH side and one extra roof plane by the looks (Pic2) those may  not be the only ones but is what I'd look for in your other weird areas.

 

M.

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post-25-0-79773400-1424484202_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

 

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Kbird, you are correct on the stud dimensions. I had to go measure one to prove it to myself. Kind of embarrassing to admit that I had that wrong.

 

The issue presented itself again after a manual roof edit went bad and I needed to delete the roof and rebuild. After rebuilding, the old issue was back again. So I checked all ceiling heights again to make sure everything was where I wanted it and nothing changed there. Then I noticed that one of the entry column walls was then protruding through the newly rebuilt roof so I lowered back down to the ceiling plane. Then deleted the roof and rebuilt it. It was back to good again. So other than that column wall, I really don't know what causing these issues.

 

I am going to try building that entry porch roof as you have suggested above.

 

Thanks again,

 

-Brad 

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If you don't have a copy of the "bad plan" download it from above again and send it into Tech Support , noting it is a reproducible error, (ie add/minus 3/8" and it fixes/disappears) and see if they have any insight , perhaps it is a bug? I'd be curious to know too , so if you get an answer from them please update this thread. Thx.

 

Was wondering about the stud height , thought you guys in Idaho were using a different height for some reason :)  have never understood why HD takes into account the finished Floor as a Builder/Remodeler, it is a non entity on any building site but of course for Int. Designers/Architects etc it is possibly helpful, though I always use the Rough ceiling height as Framed  ITRW.

 

M.

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Did you draw 2nd floor walls over the living area and designate the 'room' as 'open below'  (as was already suggested),

and then  'auto rebuild roof' ??

 

It sure does seem to resolve the issues.

 

post-63-0-48041800-1424551142_thumb.jpg

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good to see that works Jo :)  it's how I would normally do it , but then I have not seen any designs like this here ,being that most of our Lots are only 33' wide.

 

M.

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Joann,

 

I opted not to redraw that way as I thought it would be an unconventional way (I say unconventional, but I really am not the person to deem this unconventional!) to draw a plan with varying plate heights. I also didn't want to create any more issues than I had already created by using a different method.

 

It sounds like your suggestion would be the way that both you and Kbird would have drawn this type of plan up. Is that correct? 

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this method is commonly used and this tut. may give you more insight http://www.homedesignersoftware.com/support/article/KB-00210/ though about stairs/loft/balconies.

I am not saying that your original attempt was/is wrong , but for some reason HD isn't liking it . I , on many occasions have to make myself build stuff in HD as HD needs it to be built , not necessarily how I would do it on the Job.

It is why I would be interested in what Tech Support has to say about your Plan.

BTW do not trust the Materials list for your takeoffs ,its only as good as your Model and it's math is sometimes just plain wrong.

M.

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Thanks Jo I had not seen that article , it too is using the Stairwell's automatic Open below designation for the Foyer similar to the mezzanine Article , but more appropriate for this example. 

 

M.

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Hey guys, I followed your suggestion and submitted the plan to technical support. Here is the response;

 

Leanne S.
Monday, Feb 23, 2015 - 11:57 AM PST
Hello Brad,

There are some excellent hints in the thread on what needs to be changed in order to have the roof automatically generate correctly. 

The recommendation to go ahead and use the "Reset to Defaults" tool to restore the Ceiling Heights for Floor 1 back to their default value is the best place to start. 

Then follow the instructions to have rooms created on Floor 2 that are "Open Below," as opposed to raising an individual room's Ceiling Height to be that of the second story.

If you do not want to do this, then you can also manually go ahead and modify the automatically generated roof planes on Floor 1 that are not needed, or delete the roof completely and create it manually, in order for Floor 2 to display the walls.

It would be nice, however, if the program handled this specific scenario better in its existing state, so we have gone ahead and submitted a request to our Development team of software engineers to look in to this and see if there is a better way that they can handle the automatic roof generation for this file.

Thank you.
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thanks for posting back Brad , nice to know they are looking into it too , was hoping to find out why that 3/8" seemed to make a difference....

 

M.

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Hey guys, below is an update from CA support. I recently completed another attempt at building this plan to see what I could to to fix the roof issue and the issue is still present. I made darn sure the default settings were correct and then double checked all ceiling heights. For some reason that roof section wants to blow right through my walls on the 2nd level and into the living space. It is weird that the roof only blows through the walls on one half of the house on the 2nd level.

 

Unfortunately, using the open to below method creates more issues for me than it solves. From vertical walls not joining properly and showing OSB, to the creation of ceiling "beams" at adjoining rooms where I have created non-default ceiling heights, base trim on the walls. I realize some of these are fixable but apart from the roof extending into the living space on the 2nd level, the desired result of simply specifying ceiling heights in the room specifications works magnificently. And at this point, for some reason, I am feeling like the roof issue might not be related to various ceiling heights anyways.

 

I wish I could provide more detailed information on the issue, but I am short on time.

 

I haven't heard anything back from CA on their submission to the software engineers.

 

Thank you for your help,

 

-Brad

 

- Support Answer -Leanne S.
Monday, Feb 23, 2015 - 03:59 PM PST
Hello Bill,

Yes, you will need to manually remove the base molding so it isn't displayed in the Open Below room. This is expected and normal behavior at this time, but we would be happy to forward a feature request to our Development team to consider having a default setting specifically for the Open Below room type so that base moldings for rooms defined using that type wouldn't have to have any moldings applied by default.

You may want to check in to purchasing and scheduling some one-on-one time with a certified Trainer, if you need more detailed help learning how to create the plan. Information on this service can be located on the website at:
http://www.chiefarchitect.com/training/personal-training.html

Of course, if you run in to a new issue, please feel free to start a new ticket and we'll do our best to get you pointed in the right direction, even if it does end up to be more Training related than technical in nature.

Thank you.

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I'm going to suggest you start over, redrawing the plan and working to get things correct as you go.

 

Lots of small problems in the current plan make it difficult to zero in on what is causing the roof issue.

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Eric, I like your suggestion. I have actually started completely over 3x and I received the same result.  

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Eric, I like your suggestion. I have actually started completely over 3x and I received the same result.  

 

Which would suggest a bug OR you drew it exactly the same way 3 times ......

 

Post the latest Plan again and let people look at it again perhaps....

 

M.

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If you go for #4, draw just the walls -- no doors, windows, cabinets, furniture etc. No terrain either.

 

I would try drawing only the exterior walls, and any interior walls where the room has a non standard ceiling height,

 

Get everything correct, then add the foundation and then try the roof.

 

Also, if you are modeling an existing house, post a couple of pictures of it so we can understand what it's supposed to look like.

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Eric,

 

I have tried to draw the plans according to the things I learned using suggestions in this thread, video tutorials, and other threads. I was able to eliminate the errors that were given when auto building the roof.

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If you go for #4, draw just the walls -- no doors, windows, cabinets, furniture etc. No terrain either.

I would try drawing only the exterior walls, and any interior walls where the room has a non standard ceiling height,

Get everything correct, then add the foundation and then try the roof.

Also, if you are modeling an existing house, post a couple of pictures of it so we can understand what it's supposed to look like.

Thanks solver. I will give that a shot.

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solver - I finished the plan using your suggestions of just the necessary walls, and I think I found the problem with the roof blowing through the 2nd level walls.

 

The roof built perfectly after building just the necessary walls like solver suggested. After getting the roof built without my issue, I was screwing around and manually editing the roof but screwed something up so I had to delete the roof. On this plan, I have 2nd level exterior walls that are 6-1/2" thick, and they bear on main level interior walls that are 4-1/2" thick. I wanted to increase the wall thickness of the main level 4-1/2" bearing walls to 6-1/2" so they would align with those 2nd level exterior walls. I did this one wall at a time and would then rebuild the roof. The first wall I edited is shown in the attached photo. When I change this wall to 6-1/2" and rebuild the roof, the roof blows the walls on the 2nd level. When I change it back to 4-1/2" and rebuild, the roof builds correctly.

 

Weird. I didn't continue working to see if resizing the other walls continued the issue or not. I attached the plan I was working on along with the photo.

 

Thanks guys for all your help. I will forward this info to the support ticket.

 

-Brad

post-1859-0-56072200-1425963332_thumb.jpg

Our House4.plan

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Which would suggest a bug OR you drew it exactly the same way 3 times ......

Post the latest Plan again and let people look at it again perhaps....

M.

Brad ....why are you still not using the 2 storey "open below method" ?

seems to work for me , though I don't know what this house should really look like or the true heights of Rooms etc .....t

All auto Roof , no manual work so far , I see one glitch with overhangs but is this right?

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the plan:Our House4_R1.plan

 

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Mick,

 

Regarding not using the open to below method, this is what I sent to technical support;

 

"When using the open to below method for creating non-default ceiling heights, the software leaves "beams" along the ceiling area of the adjoining rooms. I have attached the plans below in a .zip file and also a .jpg of the area on the plan.
 
It would also be helpful to add in the room specification box, an option to set the ceiling height at the desired height for open to below. Currently, when trying to set a non-default (I have the default set at 9'-0") ceiling height of 11'-0", I set the open to below ceiling height on the 2nd level to 2-0" to increase the ceiling height to what should make the total height 11'0". But, this doesn't get me to 11'-0", it sets the height at 12'-31/8". It is probably taking into consideration the subfloor height of the 2nd level, which is not present, but calculated. As a work around, I can calculate the difference of these measurements and then dial it in to 11'-0" to get the proper height."
 
I attached the plan here if anyone is interested in taking a look.
 
Thanks Mick,
 
-Brad
 
 

 

 

Our House4 - Open to below.zip

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I would suspect with this plan that yes, you will need to do some interior wall cleanup in elevation or 3d views due to it's complication and differing heights ,but it doesn't take that long to grab a "beam" in elevation and drag the wall back up to the ceiling with the edit handle. ie the kitchen "beam"

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the Floor structure tab is calculating the floor thickness ,12 3/8" ( main floor is 10 3/8??) with the heights because you haven't eliminated it in the DBX ie you need to set the floor thickness to 0" and the floor finish to 0" too. Yes not intuitive and the program should ideally do that automatically for Open below rooms but doesn't.

 

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Did you get X7 ? cos x6/2015 wouldn't open that open to below plan.

 

I also noted that not all the rooms on level 1 are the same height (109") which may confuse things too with the open to below rooms.

 

X7/2016 only

Our House4 - Open to below.plan

 

M.

 

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Mick,

 

Thanks for that suggestion, I was able to clean up the beams. Yes, I purchased X7. I think for the layout templates and details alone it will be worth it for me and the plan print out size is restricted in HD Pro. I am learning with this roof issue I created and the varying plate heights, that I have much more to learn. I think I am the problem here and unfortunately wasting peoples time!

 

Onwards though. I am having a lot of fun figuring this out.

 

-Brad

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