AirstreamJake

Unwanted Roof Plane

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Hello, I'm a newbie and having problems with an extraneous roof plane being generated.  See the attached file of the floor plan and framing perspective views.

 

I have roofed-over porches on both the front and back of the house for screened porches.  The program generates the gull wing roof correctly, with the lower planes resting on the exterior wall of the porches (as they should).  However, as you can see in the framing perspective, it also generates a roof plane 'overhang' that rests on the interior wall of the porches.

 

As you can see in the floor plan, only one end of the house includes both the front and back porches.  It is only on this end of the house that the extraneous roof planes are generated.

 

I can manually delete these extraneous roof plans, but the next time I do a 'Build Roof', the extraneous planes again appear.  I've searched the forum but can't seem to find any posts on a similar topic that apply to this situation.

 

Thank you for any help you can provide.

Floor Plan & Framing Views.pdf

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Please post images directly -- no need to make a PDF of an image.

 

Identifying the rogue roof plane will help. Showing a perspective overview with the problem roof planes a different color roofing makes it clear.

 

Posting your plan file helps others to provide a solution instead of a guess.

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At Solver's suggestion, I am posting my plan file below.  The problem roof planes are those with the red metal roofing.  Thanks in advance for any help that anyone can provide.

 

I am posting the entire plan, which barely squeaks by the 25 MB limit on attachments, because I don't know how to post only specific images from the plan.

1229_SF_-_**Plan_01_-_2018-04-03.plan

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Open an overview camera, place the end of the house with the unwanted roof planes in view. Select and then delete the unwanted roof planes. With Auto Build Framing on, the framing will disappear along with the deleted roof planes.

 

DJP

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Hi DavidJPotter - I have previously done as you suggest, and it does work - but only until I Rebuild Roof Planes, at which time the unwanted roof planes reappear.  

 

I'm thinking that, for some reason, the program is not recognizing the interior porch walls (which, even though interior, are covered with siding) as being interior - but instead thinks that they are exterior walls and therefore tries to build a roof plane over them.  Does that make sense?  I thought that maybe the walls on the porches are not connecting properly with the walls on the house.  If that is the case, then I can't find the bad connections.

 

I have had Auto Build Framing turned on.  I have not had Auto Rebuild Roofs turned on.

 

Thanks for your help.  Any further suggestions would be appreciated.  I'm just wandering if there is some type of wall-connection problem (as yet undiscovered by me) that is causing these unwanted roof planes to be generated.

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I took another look at your plan and there were four wall indicators on each of the foundation walls. I deleted all four of those indicators, turned auto-rebuild roofs back on and then the unwanted roof planes then did not come back. What the exact connection between the foundation wall indicator warnings and the unwanted roof planes was, I simply do not know but there did seem to be a connection of some kind.

 

DJP

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Hi David,

 

I've had a recurring problem with the basement wall warning indicators, as you mentioned.  I don't know how to delete these indicators as you did.  I can temporarily get rid of the warning indicators by deleting the foundation and rebuilding it, but they inevitably will reoccur at some future point.

 

Did you notice that the warning indicators are at the exact location where the exterior walls of the porches meet with the walls of the house itself?  That is why I thought maybe there was a problem with wall alignment or wall junctions in those locations.  If so, I haven't been able to find what the problem is.  My suspicion is that, for some reason, the program doesn't think the porches are attached properly to the main house, and so it wants to build roof planes over the interior porch walls because it mistakenly thinks that they are exterior walls.

 

I did just try deleting the foundation and rebuilding it.  There are currently no warning flags on the foundation (although if history repeats itself, they will reappear) but, when I go to perspective view, the unwanted roof plane is still there!  Frustrating!

 

I appreciate your help and insights in this.  If anything further thoughts occur as to what the cause of the problem is, I would sure like to hear back from you!

 

Stephan

Edited by AirstreamJake
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The problem is how you have defined the porch walls. I'm not suggesting you did something wrong, only that the program does not work as you would expect. There are other ways of creating the screened in look.

 

https://www.homedesignersoftware.com/support/article/KB-00748/creating-a-screen-porch.html

 

If this is a new house, tell us more about how you see the porch being built. Is it more of a screened and covered deck? What type of foundation will it have?

 

If it's an existing house, what's there now?

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Hi Solver,

 

This is a new house that we will build on our farm.  I am trying to duplicate the look of the porches on several other buildings that we have here.  All have treated lumber visible, with the screens being 4' from center to center of the supporting studs.  The roofs are supported on double top plates that are reinforced by a 4 x 6 that sits horizontally on cripple studs in each screened section.  So, each 'post' between each set of screens consists of a full-length stud in the center that has a cripple stud on each side, and on top of the cripple stud rests the 4 x 6 and the two top plates.  I couldn't figure out how to do this in Home Designer, so I basically replicated the look of the 4 x 6's at the top using 2 x 4's.  

 

The porches will be at the same level of the house and will rest on the same perimeter beam and on interior supporting posts.  It will basically be a screened room but of different construction from the remainder of the house in that the framing will be as described above and the flooring will be treated decking.

 

I did look at the screened porch video in the Home Designer video training series but couldn't figure out how to replicate the look doing it that way.  I am, however, open to any and all suggestions.

 

Does this help?  

 

P.S. I've attached a few pictures which I hope will clarify my description above.  And, just to clarify, although these pictures are in a building with a slab foundation, in my new home it will be a pier-and-beam construction with a perimeter stem wall.

 

 

IMG_5305.jpg

IMG_5307.jpg

Edited by AirstreamJake
Additional clarification

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You can make the program happy by changing your wall definition. 

 

Add an exterior layer as shown here.

 

ht1.thumb.jpg.043f288ab50d0b6a85a27fb6ad9e4d0d.jpg

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Okay, thanks again, Solver.  I'll try adding the air gap that you suggest as an exterior layer to the wall.  Keeping my fingers crossed that it works!  Will let you know.

 

I do greatly appreciate all the work that you do on this forum.

 

Stephan

 

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As Eric said, it is the wacky 'frame only' walls causing the problem.  I tried adding the insulation as suggested, but it did not correct the roof problem?

I think you should use a 'railing' wall, tailored to look like your screened wall.  Then add a hinged glass door, tailored to look like your screened windows, with the door swing closed.

This makes the unwanted roof go away (rebuild roof), and rebuilding the foundation also makes those wall warnings go away.

Example below.

screened porch.JPG

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New revelation...

I discovered that if you move both porch gable walls (frame only walls) outward to align with the exterior house walls, then the unwanted roof goes away ('rebuild roof' turned on).

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Hello,

 

Adding the air barrier to my porch wall definitions as suggested by Solver (Eric?) and realigning the walls (as suggested by Jo_Ann) did the trick as far as deleting the unwanted roof plane. 

 

However, I am still generating warning flags on the foundation (see attachment #1) at the sites (4) where the porch walls meet up with the house walls.  I can temporarily remove these flags by (a) deleting the foundation, and (b) rebuilding the foundation.  Doing so removes the foundation flags, but on the foundation schematic, if you look closely, you can see there is a slight indentation of the stem wall outline at the site of the four junctions (see attachment #2).  If I examine the wall junctions up-close on the floor plan view, a few of the junctions have the siding layer sandwiched between the porch wall and the house wall junction (see attachment #3).  This obviously is not what I want to happen. 

 

And, when I close the plan and re-open it again, the foundation flags reappear!

 

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

1229 SF - #1 Foundation Errors.dxf

1229 SF - #2 Foundation Plan.dxf

1229 SF - #3 Detail of Small Screened Porch.dxf

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