Pitch and Vaulted Ceiling Issues

[designer468]

I am a home owner using Home Designer Architectural 2018 Build 19.3.0.490SX

 

I’m really struggling with the roof and am hoping someone can help.  I’ve watched the videos and played with the features.  I have managed to recreate our current house with almost the same roof (which was no small feat).  Now I’m trying to do the addition and I’m getting funky roof issues.

 

So I’m going to start with what I need it to look like and then I’ll explain what I’ve done and where I have issues.

 

ARCHITECT DRAWINGS

File reference: Architect Drawings - Isometric.pdf

If you look at this file, you will see that we are remodeling one rectangular part of our house.  The walls will increase to 10’ 9” (from 8’) and there will be a vaulted roof.  

 

File reference: Before Remodel.png

 

I entered the PRE-remodel floor plan into Home Designer Architect 2018 and achieved the design shown in “Before Remodel.png.”  I’m not adding windows and doors until I nail the roof.

 

File reference: Added 2nd Level.png

 

I struggled with how to achieve the 10’9" walls with the gabled roof.  First I tried to just increase the walls in that rectangular section, but the Auto Roof created a roof that was nowhere near our architect's drawings.  Dormers would not work because the roof goes OVER the existing roof peak.  

 

So my only option was to build a second story, remove the ceiling on the second story to create the vaulted ceiling AND use the Room Divider with OPEN BELOW feature to remove the 2nd floor bottom so that the bottom floor would look up into the 2nd floor ceiling.  

 

PLEASE tell me if there is a better way to do this.  I could not find an easier path.

 

Here are the steps I used to get the second level:

1.  Set Auto Build Roof on

2.  Build new floor starting from a blank - no ceiling

3.  Set Gable on front and back of 2nd floor

 

 “Added 2nd Level.png” shows the second roof and that the bottom roof is fine as long as the walls are still high.

 

ISSUE: CAN’T CHANGE PITCH ON SECOND FLOOR

File reference: NO Pitch Option on 2nd Floor.png

 

My next step was to change the pitch of the roof on the second floor, but I can’t do it.  The 1st floor roof has a pitch of 3 and the top floor has a pitch set at 5.  The bottom was set to 3 in the Build-Roof settings.  But now I want to just change the top roof.  I select a gable wall and go to Structure, but the option to change the pitch is not available (see image).  Whether I turn Auto Build Roof on or off, that pitch setting is not available to me.  

 

ISSUE: BOTTOM ROOF CHANGES WHEN I LOWER WALL

File reference: Funky roof.png and Funky artifacts.png

 

Here are the steps I took to achieve the 10’9” walls with vaulted ceilings:

 

1. Turn Auto Build Roof OFF

2.  WANT wall height to be 10’ 9” or 129"

- “H” bottom floor has a height of 97 1/8"

- “L" is the Floor Structure and is automatically 12 5/8 “

- so I set “E” to be 19 2/8”

 

3.  Because Auto Build Roof is OFF, nothing happens

4.  Turn Auto Build ON and it adjusts to new wall size … but it also messes up my 1st floor roof

5.  Turn OFF Auto Build Roof

6.  On second floor, add a divider wall and set one half of the room to OPEN BELOW

7.  Move the Divider wall all the way back to the back wall top open it all up

 

If you look at the two images referenced above, you’ll see the issues I’ve run into.  The Auto Roof caused the 1st floor roof to extend over the 2nd floor roof.  The vaulting is messed up because of this.  In addition, there are strange artifacts from using the Open Below feature to achieve the open vaulted look.

 

I really want to start working on the kitchen, but I can't do anything until I solve these roof issues.  I need the pitch and vaulting to look right before I add the skylights and kitchen cabinets.  Otherwise, I really won't be getting an accurate 3D view of the remodel ... which is why I bought the software.  Help.

 

Thank you,

Anna

Architect Drawings - Isomteric.pdf

[designer468]

Thank you Solver!  You fixed the pitch problem.  I'm going to redo the plan with the new pitch and see if still get the same artifacts on the vaulting.  If I still have the vaulting issue, should I resubmit a whole new post ... or can I edit an existing post?   I'll make sure I update my Signature, use the + feature and add the plan.  

 

[LawB10]

Could you upload the plan you have now?

[solver]

Just continue this thread. It's confusing when people edit their original post, so just add the new info in a new post.

[designer468]

I've now spent hours trying to get this roof to work.  Every time I change the pitch on the second floor, the auto roof causes a complete disaster.  So then I tried to recreate the second floor from scratch and I get a new weird error where it connects two gable walls into one HUGE gable wall.  

 

I'm attaching the most functioning plan (468 Remodel-3.plan) and the architect elevations (Architect Roof Elevations.pdf).  These are OLD architect elevations.  The designer made 2 key changes that are not reflected on these elevations: 1) she changed the upper floor pitch to 5 and 2) she extended the front wall on the 2nd floor to be right under the front door wall on the 1st floor.  But the elevations give you a good idea of what I'm trying to achieve.

 

So I'm still having the same problems:

1) I can't change the pitch on the second floor to 5 without getting bizarre effects on the roof

2) The auto roof is also causing the lower roof to join the upper roof in a way that is not consistent with my architect's drawings  

3) I get these weird artifacts  ()  when I try to create a vaulted ceiling on raised 10' 9" walls by using a second floor that opens onto the first floor using the "Open Below" feature.  The roof issues referenced in number (2) also cause the vaulted ceiling to look wrong.  The room should look like this: Architect Drawings - View fom ktichen to back doors.pdf

 

Really hoping the kitchen layout is as complicated as the roof.   

 

 

[LawB10]

Here you go....

 

Keep Auto rebuild roofs on until the roof is how you want it, then turn it off.

 

Open the second floor room specification box, look at the numbers, Ceiling B is 129 which is what you want.

 

Don't change any of the other numbers, for the second floor gables use the break wall tool.

 

Remodel.plan

 

 

[solver]

On the interior, the 2nd floor walls need to be aligned with the first. From the 2nd floor, select a wall and use the Align With Wall Below tool. Because the first floor walls are thinner, you will then need to manually move the 2 long walls out 2".

 

Doing this roof in Suite is going to be not so easy.

 

If I were designing this, I'd look at doing the rear like this. It cleans up the roof lines, and makes the changes not so obvious.

 

[designer468]

Thank you LawB10!  I'm amazed at how fast you did that.  Unfortunately, the dimensions weren't quite right inside and that would have thrown off my interior design.  But very appreciative of your help.

 

Thank you Solver!  The Align with Wall Below helped a lot.  I also realized I was making an error with Open Below.  Once I fixed these two issues, the artifacts inside all went away.

 

I think you're right.  I'm not going to be able to reproduce my architect's design.  I got so INCREDIBLY close.  I can basically reproduce our house *only* if I keep the first floor pitch at 1.5".  As soon as I try to increase it, the auto-roof program overlaps the lower roof on top of the upper roof.  That actually wouldn't be a problem if I could tell it to just effect the roofing and not the ceiling ... but it keeps changing the vaulting of my ceiling.  Sigh.

 

So I'm going to keep the pitch at 1.5" while I work on the inside.  Then I'll have to have a separate design for outside views.  

 

Can't say I'd recommend this program to someone doing a remodel.  The auto-roof feature makes it very hard to reproduce an existing structure with complicated roof configurations.  I suspect you both use Pro, which would have probably made this process easier.      

 

Thank you both for your help! 

 

[LawB10]

Your Welcome

 

You're right, the dimensions are wrong, you can change them to what they need to be.

 

Also the first floor pitch is a four and the gables are five, again you can change it.

 

Does the eaves need to be 42 " ? try 18 and 18 to see how it looks.

 

The 1.5 pitch is not going to work, if you want it to look like the Architect pdf, 3 and above will.

 

 

To fix the problem your having, with auto rebuild ON ungable the rear porch, next, delete the the second floor and reset the ceiling

height for the Kitchen room. Rebuild the second floor.

 

The plan I uploaded was built using Suite 2017 and was an easy build.

 

 

[LawB10]

Here's a revised copy of the plan

 

Remodel-1.plan

[Jo_Ann]

This is a replica done in HDA10, so the dimensions will not be exactly as yours.  But I think that you can apply some of the settings (and tricks) to your own plan, with some adjustments. Hopefully this will get you closer to what the outside and inside is want you want it to look like. 

 

designer468 house.plan

[LawB10]

I gave some bad advice for the back porch, sorry about that.

 

Here's the fix.  Drag the wall until it's about 6" from the dining room, do the same for the dining room, making it one wall.

 

If you decide to add railing to the Porches, draw the railing away from the house, click on it and check "no room definition".

 

Why are the first floor and second floor eaves blending? If you look at the PDF, the first floor height is 8' the second floor

height is 10'8", its's clear that those eaves don't blend.

[Jo_Ann]

In the roof dialog box, the eaves are set to 42".  Because you can't change eave overhang on individual walls, the eaves are blending into the roof.  Also, the pitch was changed to 5/12 on that part of the roof, making it even more likely to blend.  In the real world, maybe the overhang is less, and therefore will not blend.  But in the software version, this is what happens.

The current version of Pro, allows overhang depth change on individual walls. I don't know if HDA allows it. 

When the depth is changed, the overhang does not blend into the roof below it, and it looks just like the pdf.

[LawB10]

Jo_Ann,

 

The template that's being used is the Country Cottage, it sets the eave and gable overhangs at 12" the software did not change it to 42, the user did....

You can change the eave overhang on individual walls, but you can't change the gable overhang. There's no pictures of what the roof really looks like

so I went by the PDF. It's clear to me the eaves blend at the middle not at the end of the roof. If you will download the Architect roof elevations PDF, you

will see the rear does not blend, only the middle does.

[LawB10]

I just realized something, in the PDF on the first floor the right side gable roof ridge aligns with the second floor roof ridge.

 

Which means the pitch is a five for the right side. also the roof line is straight not crooked.

[Jo_Ann]

Here is a version with the roof improved.

designer468 house.plan

[designer468]

THANK YOU LawB10 and Jo_Ann.  

 

I'm so sorry for the delayed reply.  I don't get notifications of new posts and I didn't realize there had been more replies to my original post until today!  I upgraded to the Pro version but have continued to struggle with the roof.  I'm going to look at all of your comments and grab your files.  

 

Thank you again!!!  I really appreciate your help! 

 

Anna

[designer468]

Oh my gosh Jo_Ann!!  That design is perfect!  I'm just kicking myself for not checking back with this post.  I'll have to change my settings so that I get notifications for replies on my posts.  

 

I'm in awe that you totally nailed it, since I've spent hours creating one disaster after another.  

 

Thank you again!