Roof goofyness

[TomDesign]

Thanks for the responses. I haven't tried or looked at them yet because I got sick with the flu.  I didn't want to think I was ignoring you. I'm hoping to feel well enough in a day or so and start back on this project.

[TomDesign]

Solver-

OK, today I feel good enough to try this again.  By the way,I never have auto build on.

It doesn't work, so I am doing something wrong. You make it look simple though...

 

1) What do you mean by "Wall tool"?  I have lots of tools dealing with walls but not one I could call the "wall tool".

 

2) On the second floor the balcony and hall area do not turn gray when clicked on. I think it won't do this because of the open foyer and staircase don't allow the perimeter of the area/room to be complete.  How can I make a room out of this? Do reilings and open door areas at the top of the stairs stop this?

 

3) I also noticed that on the second floor, the left long vertical wall doesn't line up exactly top to bottom.  Midway the walls are 1/2" offset.  How can I move one part of wall to the left/right by 1/2" to line them up?  They are drawn with a 1" grid, so the arrow keys will move it in one inch increments only.

 

I think if I can get these things figured out it will solve a lot of problems.

 

LawB10 -

Thanks for the help.  What you did looks close from the outside, but the foyer wasn't open (it had a second floor) and there was an anomaly on the roof near the back where part of it was higher by 1 foot or so. The railing was also hanging out in space over the staircase.  When i tried to fix those items then the roof went wild again.  I think it may be from the items I listed above.

 

Thanks-

Tom

[solver]

1) Wall Tool -- The Icon you click to choose a wall type.

 

2) You don't have room definitions on the 2nd floor where they are needed because some of the walls are marked No Room Definition. Click the Wall Tool, hold the Shift key and draw a selection marquee around all the 2nd floor to select all the walls. 

 

Ctrl-E to open and clear the checkbox for No Room Definition.

 

 

3) You can change the grid to be whatever you want in Default Settings>Plan. Also, when you select a wall, look in the Edit Toolbar. You may see an icon that looks like a bar with either an up or down pointing arrow. If you see this, then the wall is misaligned with the one above or below. Click the icon to move the wall into alignment.

[TomDesign]

1) Wall Tool -- The Icon you click to choose a wall type.

 

> So it doesn't matter if it is the one for an internal wall, external wall, or foundation wall?  I picked the straight external wall one. I also tried the straight internal wall tool as well.

 

2) You don't have room definitions on the 2nd floor where they are needed because some of the walls are marked No Room Definition. Click the Wall Tool, hold the Shift key and draw a selection marquee around all the 2nd floor to select all the walls. 

 

> I did the above, I drew a gray rectangle around the whole group of second floor walls.

 

Ctrl-E to open and clear the checkbox for No Room Definition.

 

> Ctrl-e doesn't open anything, I see no change or any check box to clear.  That's why I asked a question of another possible way way to make a room definition.

 

> I am very careful to follow your instructions, and I am capable of doing so. It's that sometimes they don't work the same for me as they do for you. I'm sure you have many more hours of practice using this program and know all of it's quirks. Just repeating the same instructions over doesn't change the outcome.  I am really trying hard to follow your instructions the first time.  Any other way I could try?

[solver]

I just noticed your sig says you have Pro. Did you upgrade?

 

Some of the walls on the second floor are marked No Room Definition, probably because they are walls automatically generated by the program. You need to clear this checkbox on some of the walls in order to get a room definition. 

 

When you have anything selected, Ctrl-E opens the Specification Dialog Box. Double clicking on an item does the same, and so does selecting something, then opening it with the Open Object icon found in the Edit Toolbar.

 

For each wall around an area that has no room definition, open it, and make sure No Room Definition is not checked. You will find this setting in the General panel.

 

Shift-Select -- Lets say you want to select all the windows on the first floor to make a change to all of them at once. Click the Window Tool -- the icon you click to place a window. Now holding the Shift Key, marquee around the entire plan. You have now selected all the windows. Ctrl-E, or the Open Object tool will open the Window Specification Dialog, and you will be able to make changes to all the windows at once. You can do the same thing with cabinets, only you will need to select the type of cabinet. To select all the base cabinets, click the Base Cabinet icon as if you were going to place a base cabinet, then hold the shift key while marqueeing around the cabinets you wish to select. 

 

Walls are a bit of an exception, as you can only select all walls, not walls of specific type. 

 

I suspect you selected more than just walls by not holding the shift key down while drawing the marquee.

 

Anyway, the idea is, no matter how you do it, is to clear the No Room Definition checkbox on some of the walls in order to get a room definition. I was giving you a shortcut to do all the walls at once, but one at a time gets you to the same place.

[LawB10]

I"m not sure you understand how the software works. It builds according to input by you.  Solver explained to you how to fix the errors in your plan.

 

For some reason they were not followed.

 

The Foyer didn't have a floor, because it was "open below". If you were open the front door, you fall down to the foundation floor.

 

There was no stairwell, because was there was no room to build it.

 

Going by your plan layout, that's how it looks. It's fixed.

[TomDesign]

Solver -

Thanks for the reply.  Yes, out of desperation I did upgrade to Pro. It was real late at night.  By the way, as soon as I upgraded to Pro, Ctrl-e worked as you had explained.  I have had less than 15 minutes on the new version.  Hope to have time to work on it more on Sunday.

Tom

[solver]

Tom, did you get my private message? I did a couple of videos and sent you the links.

 

Click the envelope icon at the top of the page so read it, if you haven't.

[TomDesign]

Solver-

I did get you private message with the videos.  I have watched them several times, Thanks -

I spent several hours today trying various things and getting used to the Pro version. It is quite different in how it works, especially the roofs. They work much more like I expected them to work. VERY different than the Architect version.  Almost all of the instructions you have given me over the past several weeks suddenly work now.

 

Right now I'm trying to get a small gable roof to go over the window on the right front bedroom. I can get it to work at 3-12 pitch as the roof is, but I want it to be a 10-12 gable if possible.

I'm also trying to get the bay in the master bedroom to be only under the normal roof and not stick out more than the existing 42".  I'm watching the tutorials and reading the manual but they don't show exactly what I am trying to do, just similar things.

 

After I get used to things a little more I will ask some specific questions.

Tom

[TomDesign]

OK, roofs are working fairly well for me now.

I want to place a "fake dormer" which seems to be called a "floating dormer" in the program. I want just the triangle part that looks like a gable end without any side walls.  This would normally be built on top of an existing roof and is for looks only.  I would like to put this directly over the double garage door on the 3/12 pitch roof section.  My calculations show that a 10/12 pitch gable roof that is 12' wide will be 5' high at the peak.  The 3/12 roof is 5' high at the peak, so this fake dormer roof should meet right at the ridge of the roof.

 

I have had limited success with the floating dormer tool as it wants a minimum of 6" high walls where I want 0" walls. I also can not seem to control the depth of the side walls which I would like to change. 

 

I have looked for videos and read the manual and can get the examples to work, but can not change it to the shape/size I want to use. I would like the gable overhang to be 12" and the gable wall to be directly over the outside wall that has the garage door in it.  What would be the best approach to do this?

 

Thanks-

Tom

[solver]

Something like this?

 

 

Think about what this is. It's really a second floor room with no walls.

 

This would also be easy to draw with the manual roof tools.

[TomDesign]

I see what you mean, but don't you need to have walls to define a room and control the size of the room?

Do I need to make second story walls and then set the wall height of 1" to do that?

[solver]

That's just what I did. I drew in a room on the second floor, set the ceiling height to 1-1/2" which gives a 0" finished height.

 

After your roof is finalized, you could turn off auto rebuild roofs and delete the 3 back walls.

 

For the most accurate representation, you would draw the new roof in manually. This would place the new roof planes on top of the old as it would be built.

 

I have been assuming that this project is to get the design worked out, and you will then work with a contractor who will produce construction drawings as needed. You are building a model for looks rather than for structure.

[TomDesign]

Your assumption is correct, I'm just trying to get some ideas to make the "look" of the house correct. The floor plan will be the same as I have it.  An architect will then draw the plan in autocad to make drawings for the permits and builder to price out.

 

I'd like to learn how to draw the roof manually, but so far I haven't had much luck with that. Hard to get the planes at the right angles with the main roof.  I usually end up with an odd hole in the main roof with crooked gable roof pieces.  I'll read up on that some more.

 

As for the wall height, wouldn't I need to have the height be set to the vertical height of the truss cross section at the point of the front wall? Because of the overhang and the truss construction it is probably 10" or more just above the house outside wall.  Or is there a way to specify that it be on the roof surface in the front?

 

I normally have auto rebuild roofs "off" as it seems to work better that way, but it is tedious.

[TomDesign]

No matter what I try, the 3/12 room overhang is cut off along the front of the dormer (your drawing is correct), also the roof needs to be lowered by about 6".  I have the room height set to 1-1/2 inches.

[solver]

Where do you want the gable wall -- over the garage wall?

 

Mine is set back some which I think looks better. 

 

[TomDesign]

Yes, over the garage wall.  remember there is a 42" overhang, so it will be set back 42".

Now my attempt all of a sudden has a strange roof plane sprouting from it. Deleting the whole thing, and then redrawing the dormer room again and it still shows up.  See the attached pictures.

 

[solver]

A bit of roof work. 

[solver]

Here is your plan with a manual gable in place. It's not as you wanted, but it might help. You could copy the roof planes and wall from this plan to your current one, or just experiment with this one.

Bonnie5y Base G 1.zip

[TomDesign]

That is impressive... I'd be happy if i could get the more simple things working.  I want to make three variations and then evaluate which would be cheaper/easier to construct.  I can see this project going over budget real easily...

 

Any idea where that weird roof came from?  I can delete it, but it comes back if i try to put the fake dormer back on, even if the size is different.  And i can't get the roof/overhang to stay in the front.

 

The front gable wall is set to 10" pitch, 12" overhang.  The back gable wall is set to 10" pitch and 0" overhang.  The side walls are both set for 10" pitch.  I have the room set for ceiling height of 1.5" and as a closet.  No ceiling checked.

 

Is there a way to get the master bedroom bump out so the roof remains straight and doesn't extend out and up?

 

I'll attach the file.Bonnie5y2.plan

[solver]

I worked with this last night and don't think the program is going to build what you want automatically -- at least not without a bunch of trickery. 

 

Manual roofs are not difficult, they just take a bit of practice.

 

Here is a good video to get you started. 

[solver]

Here is how you might approach your dormer.

 

Start by drawing a garage the same width and as deep as the entire house at that point. No need for any rooms inside, just get the basic shape and size. No need for a garage door either.

 

Build the roof setting walls to gable, overhang and pitch.

 

Make sure Auto Rebuild Roofs is off.

 

Change the pitch in the Build Roof Dialog to 10.

 

Draw two walls up from where the garage door would be. These are temporary and give you a place to draw the new roof planes.

 

Move one 12' from the other. Select them both and center them within the garage.

 

 

Go up one floor -- this will be the attic on this plan. Turn on Reference Display, and draw an exterior wall above the lower wall to be the gable wall. Draw it between the 2 temporary walls below, and the length is not critical. Open this wall and make it an Attic Wall, and check Roof Cuts Wall At Bottom (on the Roof Panel).

 

 

Back to 1st floor and draw in the 2 new roof planes. They don't need to be very wide or long.

 

Select the edge of one of them that needs to join to the same edge on the other, press 2, or click the Join Roof icon, select the corresponding edge and they should join the the middle.

 

 

Take a Full Overview to see. 

 

 

Back in plan view, Select the overhang edge and drag it so there is no overhang.

 

Select the top edge of one of the roof planes, and join it to the main roof. I had success clicking the edge of the main roof at the bottom of the screen. They should join. Repeat for the other side.

 

 

 

You will need to adjust the gable overhang, but otherwise, should be very close.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TomDesign]

I watched the video two times and it seemed understandable.

 

Now i am following your instruction in a new plan as you suggest. I'm having trouble getting the two roof planes to join.  Most of the time I get a lengthy error message box that says something like this:

Cannot move these roof edges without making adjacent edges cross one another making one of them zero length.  Before joining them try adding a break to one of the edges or using the edit handles to move the edges closer together.

Sometimes the two planes seem to connect in the middle but overlap slightly and don't act as one. any movement using the handles works only on one of the planes.

The rest of the steps seem to work, but i don't get the set baseline box as you showed in the first picture set.  I also don't see the triangle shaped dashed lines in the first picture left side.

In the overview, it does look mostly correct though.

[TomDesign]

Is there a way I can lower the roof planes? What I have now looks good, but if I could push them straight down toward the floor about 6-10" it would be perfect.  Your example had the planes lower.

[solver]

That's easy. Select one and open it. On the General Panel, select Lock Pitch, then put in a new value for Baseline Height.