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scott_v

Gable roof is forcing balloon framed rake walls, I want platform walls

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It appears the default wall when selecting a gable roof is a balloon framed raked wall.  I want to build a gable roof over platform framing with a double top plate on all 4 walls of a simple rectangular shop.  Any suggestion how to do this in Pro?

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You can control how the software frames in "Edit - Default Settings - Framing", that is easy and straight forward. The gable part is also straight forward, though a picture or sketch would aid precise understanding and thus precise advice. Please post a sketch or photograph and then, fully understood, useful advice could then follow.

 

DJP

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This is what I get when using the default settings. Not balloon framed.

 

post-171-0-02445200-1441564699_thumb.jpg

 

What do you want that is different?

 

It sounds a bit like you want to frame a second floor deck, setting the roof on it, instead of building second floor walls.

 

Like this.

 

post-171-0-43305300-1441565361_thumb.jpg

 

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the gable walls only balloon frame if you have the Balloon Through box checked in the Wall's DBX   AFAIK

 

generally the Gable end is actually a Truss unless you are doing True vaulted (cathedral) ceilings.

 

M.

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Eric, your first drawing is close to what I want except I see no need for the dbl plates on the rake; the end common rafter load is carried by the platform wall framing.  All you need are notches in the gable studs on which to set the rafter.  Regardless, I've opend up a new plan, reset all defaults, layed out the walls, selected gable roof which opened a "lesson" box that showed me how to specify Full Gable Wall at each end.....which yields a ballooned framed raked wall which is not what I want.  

 

Attached is a pic of what I'm trying to build...focus on the gable end at the right side of the drawing.

post-4058-0-28024000-1441570286_thumb.jpg

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the gable walls only balloon frame if you have the Balloon Through box checked in the Wall's DBX   AFAIK

 

generally the Gable end is actually a Truss unless you are doing True vaulted (cathedral) ceilings.

 

M.

I'm not designing with engineered trusses;  I'm building an old school cut and stack roof with a ridge, rafters, joists.

 

What is a "Wall's DBX"?

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DBX is short for Dialog Box. When you open an item, like a wall, to make changes, you are opening the Wall Specification dialog box.

 

Why does this detail need to be correct in the plan?

 

 

 

 

post-171-0-39765900-1441573393_thumb.jpg

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Why does this detail need to be correct in the plan?

Yes, the dbl plate you pointed to in the drawing isn't necessary unless you are doing a balloon frame wall.

 

Not sure I understand your question.  My expectation in a "Pro" software is that the drawn construction details match what will be built in the field.  Isn't that the point of a Pro design tool?

Gable Wall Framing.pdf

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Pro tends to create a Representation rather than Actual details, and I always note that on drawings submitted for permitting.

 

Home Designer Pro is the best of the Home Designer series which is focused on the consumer market. Chief Architect Premier is the Professional product Chief Architect sells for about $2,700.

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Like Eric said or indicated and I underline, the software does NOTHING in and of itself, it is you, controlling it via settings and manual editing which then causes it to arrive at a particular result. You do that, not the software by itslelf.

 

DJP

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Pro tends to create a Representation rather than Actual details, and I always note that on drawings submitted for permitting.

 

 

 

To answer your earlier question about why accurate framing details are important:

 

1) As a builder I want an architectural design program to generate an accurate and detailed cut list.  Neither Pro or Premier offer this feature.  For example, Pro generates total lineal feet of framing lumber required but does not break it out by individual stick length which is necessary for bidding and purchasing lumber.  Tech support admitted all of the necessary detail information is contained in the program, however neither Pro or Premier offer this level of detail to users.  The gentleman whom I spoke with said they receive numerous complaints on this from builders.  Their solution:  manually add up individual stick length requirements.  Ugh.

 

2) Often a plan reviewer will require an up close, specific construction detail be shown on the drawing.  In those situations the drawing must represent precisely what will be built.  

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I believe what Eric meant is that default results can be considered the "default result or condition". Anyone who will study and practice with Pro can make precise details in either 2D or 3D once they learn how to manipulate things to a desired result. How to do this is documented in the Reference Manual. It is your earned skill and not the software that creates preciseness.

 

DJP

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To answer your earlier question about why accurate framing details are important:

 

1) As a builder I want an architectural design program to generate an accurate and detailed cut list.  Neither Pro or Premier offer this feature.  For example, Pro generates total lineal feet of framing lumber required but does not break it out by individual stick length which is necessary for bidding and purchasing lumber.  Tech support admitted all of the necessary detail information is contained in the program, however neither Pro or Premier offer this level of detail to users.  The gentleman whom I spoke with said they receive numerous complaints on this from builders.  Their solution:  manually add up individual stick length requirements.  Ugh.

 

2) Often a plan reviewer will require an up close, specific construction detail be shown on the drawing.  In those situations the drawing must represent precisely what will be built.  

 

No idea who you spoke too but they didn't know Pro or Premier which can do both of the above...............

 

1.) Turn on Cut list or Buy List and you get "stick lengths"............  default is total lineal ft.............(RTM)....

 

         .............BTW  it only calcs' sqft, in the plans, not per industry stds. (waste etc) and if it aint in Plan it ain't in the ML ,

                                     it's not a true estimating Program 

  

2.) You can also produce detailed Cad Details in Pro , their is even a KBA on how to do it.....

               (the more accurate the model the less manual work to do.)

 

 

 

If you want help with something Post the Plan and ask specific questions , to get good Answers we also need to know you Software and version. Pls fill in your sig.

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I agree -- the materials list is lacking. 

 

I'm curious about how you would like to see 2x material specified. Standard length studs are easy, although the program would need to know how you frame things like corners,  and where walls join in a T.

 

What about top and bottom plates? And all the short pieces like your gable end studs, cripples, and miscellaneous like blocking for drywall, kitchen cabinets, grab bars etc.

 

If the program could report the exact length for each piece of material, then to be useful, each non standard length piece would need to be assigned to a specific piece of lumber.

 

I know the program could do better, not sure if best is realistic.

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Don't get me wrong , the ML is my biggest Pet Peeve with Pro/Prem.  after the 3D views for Clients it was the 2nd reason I bought Pro but as mentioned if its not in the  Model it aint in the ML  ( except foundation steel and bolts)  and it doesn't calculate to industry standards , you can't even add a global 10% for waste/fudge factors etc. It is slowly getting better and Scott Harris (VP) has told me they are working on it but that it will take a couple of versions before it is a lot better. 

 

However it does most of what you mention Eric , it will list plates .studs etc , the tough part is that it doesn't break it all out in nicely named groups , any short blocking etc you add to the model is added to the list as Fir Stock , all the short pieces not a "named" piece  it's adds together in the ML or lists them depending on the Structural Member Reporting set Options. 

 

If you turn on Wall framing in Plan view you can see how it frames the corners etc automatically , and if needed in a 3D framing view you can change things around , add extra beams posts etc too, blocking etc.

 

I think we need a new Thread :)  but there a numerous posts on the ML here and at CT too , though I find it works for Architects :)........... most Builders hate it for it's inaccuracies , and non Industry Std Calcs.

 

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post-25-0-03894400-1441828861_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

 

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