Sign in to follow this  
Keith_K

Now why did I know that when it came to doing the roofs...

Recommended Posts

...that problems would arise.  Because my waters told me so and they rarely fail in their predictions.  :wacko:

 

I knew it wasn't going to be plain sailing because I am working on alterations to a structure that already exists especially given the different ceiling heights.  After doing all the usual preparations like specifying gable walls and stuff I gave to Auto roof building wotsit a try and got a creation that wouldn't have been out of place in a Harry Potter film.  So I resorted to creating the roof planes manually with the result that the roofs were created OK but none of the walls have been made as gables.  If I try and drag them up walls in other parts of the plan get dragged as well.  There is also what I call "ghosting" on the roofs on the left side of attachment 3 for some reason (arrowed on blue).

 

So, you clever people, what is going on?  Eh?  ;)

 

post-52-0-87193300-1439827373_thumb.jpg   post-52-0-21912900-1439827395_thumb.jpg

 

post-52-0-70839400-1439827415_thumb.jpg

 

And then we get to the shop, office and toilets area which is a flat roofed section of the building.  So I thought I would be clever and use soffits to create these roofs.  Worked well for the one section but when it came to the angled bit (angled at -9.313º) it all went potty and I eventually gave up trying to fix it.  Please guide me in this, thou great redeemers.

 

post-52-0-84920500-1439827433_thumb.jpg

 

Oaklands - proposed development 13.08.15 Plan A.plan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could you clarify what it is that you are trying to do?  Something more like this auto created roof?

You've got the display of Attic Walls turned off in your camera views, which is why you're seeing a gap there, everything else is just a matter of setting it up correctly.

You might want to create a copy of the plan and use Edit> Reset to Defaults, check EVERYTHING and then focus just on getting the roof right, then turn off Auto Rebuild and adjust the Ceiling Heights in rooms as needed.

You can use the instructions on creating a Shed roof (two opposing sides marked "Full Gable", one set to High Shed and the opposed wall from that pitch set to 1.2 degrees) to create the "flat" roofs rather than using Soffits (the Wall Spec dialog won't let you set it lower than 1.2 degrees, but you can modify the roof planes afterwards to make them truly zero if that's what you want.)

post-35-0-71129000-1439830330_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kat and David , have you pointed in the right direction, the Roofs build Auto no problem once you set your wall directives correctly and set Room heights as Kat mentioned but a few things : 

 

Your upper building (in plan view) has no ceilings which is why David was getting all those weird walls stopping his attic wall repair working correctly , that area is the only one actually that HD Pro doesn't handle nicely on Auto. If you drag that wall over like David in the video, it wont be correct as that wall has a notch/step in it the thickness of the wall so they must be dragged individually if needed.

 

Your wall roof directives are wrong on both big buildings you have them at full gable on the length of the building not the ends.

 

You have a bunch of different ceiling heights , even on the single storey Toilet Block ...best to set  Floors to the tallest height if you want the roof to build of the same plate height ( as you have checked)  then lower the ceiling in rooms that aren't at default with Auto Roofs off.  Before you try Kat's "reset to defaults trick"  reset your Defaults eg the 2nd floor height default is 4330mm while the 1st floor is 2520 , that correct?

 

Curious why you have an unused 3rd Floor ?

 

A number of your walls are reversed ,according to the visual indicator ,when you select them ( not sure if that is a 2014 thing though) , some are solid colour which doesn't effect the roof but makes for a bad join in the back corner of the Upper building. On the small single storey extension , that is why you aren't getting an overhang , reversing the walls and then reversing them again to get the siding to ext. seems to fix it although Pro still "Thinks" your walls are reversed, or drag the roof out manually.

 

Overhangs need to be about double the thickness of the Fascia at a minimum or roof planes will cut into walls etc causing issues as the measurement is from the sheathing to the front of the fascia ie normally measured off the face of the ply to the face of the fascia. Double the fascia thickness will allow space for stucco or siding to go up behind usually, eg 50mm (though I don't recommend wall tight overhangs ITRW, seen too much water damage to ever do it myself.) but know you are modelling an Existing Building.

 

Unfortunately Keith I can't share plans with you so not much point posting it unless David or Eric or ??? want to look , unless you have downloaded the 2016 Trial ?  so you can open others plans and at least check them out. and copy settings.

 

M.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Guys.  Thank you for your responses.  I'm not feeling too chipper today so I'll just answer what I can so that you don't think I am ignoring you and look at things in more depth tomorrow when I hope to be feeling better.

 

Katalyst777 -  Yes, that is exactly what I am trying to achieve except that you have created an additional floor resulting in the two large blocks being much higher than they should be.  The overhand on the "shed roofs is also a bit too wide because those roof will actually be concrete slabs and will have very little overhang, if any at all.  I have attic walls turned off because the programme creates walls that float in the middle of nowhere and which you can't get rid of without turning off the attic wall display. :(   Your idea of doing a copy and sort of starting all over again seems to be a good way to go.

 

post-52-0-90719000-1439917931_thumb.jpg

David -  Thank you for going to all the trouble of doing the video.  What you did (apart from the one little hiccup with the siding) seemed so simple after just a few clicks here and there.  Unfortunately I can't hear what you are saying even with the volume at full level nor am I able to see clearly where you are pointing and clicking.  Tomorrow I'll try and get the video to run in full screen and see if I can follow it better then.

 

Mick -  The upper floor has been set with no ceilings because the ceiling will be "mini vaulted" and will follow the pitch of the roof for about ½ - 1 metre in then flatten across.  This is because that existing part of the building (currently a workshop) has a ceiling height of only 4.7 metres making the standard flat finished ceiling height too low and that idea was my solution to increase the ceiling height with any additional construction work on the existing walls.  It would also give some "character" to the upper floor of that part of the building. 

 

The roof directives have been corrected.  I haven't a clue as to what changed all those roof heights.  They were checked and double checked.  I can assume though that on the single storey toilet block this happened when I was mucking around with soffits.

 

The unused 3rd floor is not my creation.  It is that of the software which likes to create those pesky attic walls. ;)

 

post-52-0-06906900-1439917949_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 3rd floor is User Created , there is an attic level as well , I deleted the 3rd Floor and then the Attic level as well , which forces an auto rebuild of the attic level above Floor 2 and all seems Well.

 

There shouldn't be an issue setting up your  "Mini Vaulted" Roof,......once the Roof is built , at normal Stud height , turn of Auto Roof rebuilds and simply raise the Rooms Ceiling Height to the desired height , you need to do this AFTER you have all other Roofs you want done Auto though other Pro will rebuild the Roof and thus the ceilings in those Rooms, so all further Roof planes would need to be Manual.

 

I think part of what you call "crazy attic walls" is due to the fact Pro doesn't understand your Self-made Walls as true walls as they don't have in some cases masonry or Framing , two things HD uses to determine how things join etc , you should perhaps make your walls , as they will be , or are, in the Real World.

 

I didn't figure out why HD thinks 1/2 your walls are reversed , not sure if that is a bug between old and new versions or not?

 

Is the 2nd Floor 4.7 m  on it own ? or is that the Total height including the 1st (ground floor)  ?   your 1st floor is about 2500mm and your 2nd 4300mm approx. , currently , so about 6.8m total at the top of the walls.

 

David's Video is fine , so it must be on your end Keith , you go full screen use the icon on the bottom right of the youtube window , on the right hand side is the speaker icon , click on it an make sure the sound is not only muted but turned up.

 

M.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I spent hours today redoing all the floor settings for ceiling heights etc. and I also moved a wall.  It was drawn as shown in the previous plan because that is the way middle section was tacked between the original back section and the shop in the hand drawn plans.  Those two sections were once totally separated but after staring at the plans for a while I thought that it would make more sense to have the wall where it is now.

 

post-52-0-95242100-1440112755_thumb.jpg

 

I managed to follow and hear David's video this afternoon and made the necessary adjustments to the overhangs anf then did the build roof thang.  The front section built correctly but the back one was another Harry Potter creation so I deleted the roof planes for the back section and will try doing manual roof planes tomorrow when I will also tackle the flat roofs for the angled sections and hope that I have the success that David had.

 

For some reason the system is creating an attic so on the 2D plan I am getting strange walls.  That is why I turned off the display of attic walls.

 

post-52-0-95521000-1440112802_thumb.jpg  post-52-0-28283800-1440112818_thumb.jpg 

 

However I didn't realise that the display options work totally separately between 2D 3D until I turned them on and the gables appeared.  Wahey!  The colour change that David experienced also occurred by I fixed it with the colour picker tool thing. :ph34r:

 

My success was, however, somewhat spoiled by the fact that when I turned the attic wall display on in 3D two mysterious walls were also created and I have yet to figure out why because they appear on walls that have never had a first floor above them.

 

post-52-0-61017000-1440112918_thumb.jpg

 

David, I was also very interested to see that in your video the walls of the angled section of the plan are straight and crisp as opposed to mine which are "wiggly" and blurry.  Do you have a very fancy video card?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wanted to post a new copy of the plan but it was taking an absolute age so I gave up waiting.  I'll try again tomorrow as it is after midnight here and I need my bed.  The Hometalk website must be very tired because it took nine minutes for my reply above to be posted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there is ALWAYS an Attic Level ALWAYS ...it is the level under the Roof planes and is built auto , you can't add Rooms up there but it is always there under the Roof Planes.  

 

EVERY VIEW TYPE in HD has it's very own Display Options (Layers Control) , even the Materials list, it's not just a 2D/3D thing , the "strange Attic Walls"  didn't build when you turned on their Display, they were already there , you just couldn't see them (not displayed) and I think are because your roof overhangs are too short , Attics walls are controlled by the Roof planes ,the stop the Walls if the Roof plane is there and correctly placed.

 

Your roofs build fine Auto even the single storey angled part once setup right , if you download the 2016 Pro Trial  ( you can just activate it once you do upgrade)  you can look at the plan below I have posted if you want too.  

 

Oaklands 13.08.15 MH_R1.plan

 

M.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right gentlemen (and ladies) I am now on the point of tears or, God help me, another heart attack.  :unsure:

 

In the last three days and following all the advice I was given above I have tried to build the roofs on the two upstairs levels on my plan at least 50 times!  Late yesterday afternoon I thought that I had succeeded and was convinced that I had saved my work but when I went back to the plan later all the @*&^#!!! problems were back.

 

I am on the point of scrapping this project now but thought I would give it just one more try, working slowly in short steps and engaging my brain to the best of it's current ability.  By doing so and on only reaching step 4 I seem to have discovered the root of the problem and that is that the software is ignoring the set ceiling height of the back section of the plan and increasing it to match the height of the front section.  This can be clearly seen in the attached image.

 

post-52-0-59158900-1440333367_thumb.jpg

 

In order to save my sanity, and indeed this whole project and all the work I have put into it, please advise as to how I can stop the software from increasing the roof height.  What would be even better is for someone with more savvy than I have could work on the plan and then let me have a fixed copy (though this might be asking too much) so that I can carry on and finish the work to the point where I can make a presentation to the owners of the building.

 

If there is a fee for any assistance please let me know and I'll see if I can afford it.

 

Hope springs eternal, as they say.

 

Oaklands - proposed development 22.08.15 TEST PLAN.plan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is the roof supposed to look like?

 

Kat posted a picture in post #2.

 

That looks like a manually drawn roof plane with the raised wall under it. If it is, you just need to lower the roof plane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A quick cleanup of the plan gives this for the 2 large buildings. Roof is auto built.

 

 

post-171-0-51906200-1440355963_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That corner has a broken Wall Keith in your plan  2015 and 16 show it as soon as you open the plan with the new "broken wall cursor" and Circle it.

 

Shout yourself Pro 2016 , then you'll be able to use Eric's or My Plan ...or Kat's or anyone else's for that matter....

 

You could open my Plan above with the 2016 Trial if you want to look at settings ......and see the broken walls..

 

Unfortunately I don't have any HD Software that can open your Plan and resave it so you can still open it.

 

M.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I decided to walk away from the plan for a while on Sunday only coming back to it late yesterday afternoon and again this morning and I have finally achieved my objective.

 

post-52-0-88436000-1440508669_thumb.jpg 

 

Well, 98% of it anyway.  There are still two small things that are causing diarrhoea - my comments re these are on the "Roofs - front with oddity" attachment below.  I just need to clear up the one and I will be satisfied. :)

 

post-52-0-50677900-1440508703_thumb.jpg  post-52-0-47666800-1440508723_thumb.jpg

 

Thank you all for your help.  And patience.  :wub:

 

My next step in this saga will be to drag two cottages across from another plan and place them near the bottom of the long leg of the terrain.  When I do this will the default floor specs and stuff change to match those of the existing buildings or should I delete the (D)s from the cottage floor specs to prevent this possibility? :unsure:

 

Oaklands cottages NO FURNITURE 15.08.15.plan

 

Oaklands - proposed development 25.08.15.plan

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

- The issue on the front wall is because those Rooms on the 2nd floor still have different floor heights/ceiling below heights (2424mm) , and Pro wraps the siding down to the bottom of the floor Joist by default

 

-the anomaly on the gable isn't a graphics glitch it's cos there is a step in the wall for some reason

 

- Should there be a roof over the single level storage area ?  I am guessing you did those with manual roof planes as for some reason the walls are not meeting the ceiling/roof there , if you turn on the Balloon through ceiling setting in the Wall DBX it will grow the wall to meet the Roof planes though.

 

- couple of broken walls still see pics for pink cirlces the one on the left is cos you have an invisible wall on top of the Soundboard wall , other one just needs pulling back and letting it resnap to the main wall.

 

 

M.

post-25-0-49072600-1440530326_thumb.jpgpost-25-0-38033600-1440529655_thumb.jpgpost-25-0-18952400-1440530220_thumb.jpgpost-25-0-44595100-1440530234_thumb.jpgpost-25-0-23020100-1440529638_thumb.jpgpost-25-0-09632300-1440529802_thumb.jpgpost-25-0-74897200-1440529946_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, blow me down! There I was in my little bubble of euphoria after patting myself on the back and telling myself how clever I was when along comes Mick with his fancy, up-to-date software to burst my bubble. Charming. ;) But thank you again for your input

 

The issue on the front wall has been fixed but I will state categorically that those changes to the wall/ceiling heights were not made by me. All I changed were the ceiling heights of the back section after doing the roofs using Katalysts777's method But I will forgive the gremlin that inhabits my computer one last time.

 

All the issues have now been fixed, I am happy and I will be moving on to the next stage of this mind-numbing project.

 

Until the next time then. :ph34r:

 

post-52-0-43288300-1440701928_thumb.jpg post-52-0-47661200-1440701944_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty !

 

Might be time to make all the siding the small color ,or is that how it really is?

 

How about that Other Work , hear anymore?

 

M. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

post-52-0-70364100-1440761028_thumb.jpg

Approval at last!! :D

There is no siding on the current buildings at all, just render. The different colours are what I thought was a nice way of defining each separate residential unit and the commercial section (there will still be a petrol station and shop). The two cottages that will be added to the complex also have siding on the upper storeys. Siding seems to be all the rage in the UK at the moment though I must confess I would have liked a better range of colours than what is offered in HD.

Nothing from that bloke. He must have found someone he could talk down to. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SWEET !!!

 

If you know the paint colour you like and , their Website has the RGB No#s you can make any colour you want , I recently did it with some Sherwin Williams Colours not in their HD Library , I just copied an existing colour too my User Lib. and then change the Colour via the Custom Tool and input the 3 RGB no# in the DBX.

 

 

Yeah...still plenty of "those types" around unfortunately....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this