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stpete111

Can't get this roof right for the life of me!

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Hi I'd greatly appreciate any help/input I could get.  Take a look at the first attachment - I'm trying to reproduce this roof in Home Designer Suite 2016 but I'm really having trouble. I'm following the instructions for creating a Gambrel roof, but I can't get the two pitches right, and I feel I don't fully understand the "Start at Height" setting and the "In From Baseline" setting, which may or may not be my problem.  See the 2nd attachment for a glass house view of what I have so far - the overhang part needs to be way closer to the house but I can't get it any closer.  For reference, the 3rd attachment is Wall Spec settings for both of the walls in question.  Also for reference, the 1st and 2nd floors of this house are both 8' ceilings

 

Any advice on how to get it exactly like the picture would be greatly appreciated (not the dormers, I'm not worried about that right now).

 

 

post-2548-0-67017200-1429564990_thumb.jpg

post-2548-0-77854800-1429565106_thumb.jpg

post-2548-0-01275100-1429565188_thumb.jpg

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3rd  pic shows your overhang at 32" not whatever it should be eg 8", to get it close to the wall ,and I'd say the 1st pitch has to be even steeper than the 32 you are using now.

 

posting the plan  , will get you the best answers , as there are too many settings in dialog boxes which leads to guessing, especially since you have filed in your Forum Profile signature with your Version or the Title you are using... see mine below

 

M.

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Here is a You Tube explanation of what a roof baseline is and where it is:

 

http://youtu.be/cD8xTwQ7SaI

 

DJP

 

David, thank you so much, your video was very helpful.  I will work with the info you gave and post back afterwards if all is good.

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Here is a You Tube explanation of what a roof baseline is and where it is:

 

http://youtu.be/cD8xTwQ7SaI

 

DJP

 

 

Ok guys, David et al,

 

David's video was great in helping me understand the settings in the Wall Options settings, but I'm still having trouble applying it.  Per Mick's suggestion, I'm attaching the HD file in hopes someone can take a look and play around to get to the right settings.  Again, I'm going for what's seen in the first attachment of the first post.  At this point I just need the part that hangs over to "touch" or "wrap" the house.  I can't get that to happen no matter what I try.

 

(Note that since my original post I've changed the upper pitch 6 in 12 as that's what I now believe it to be.

 

Thanks for any help!

Gambrel Roof TestE.plan

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No one else either?

No one has access to your home. No one but you can carefully measure it and then apply that data to your virtual model but you. None of us here have psychic powers to know for you or do for you without precise data only you have. After a point, you just open your Reference Manual, read it, practice what it conveys and then apply it to your situation. We can and do help but in the end, it is your project and your home. All of us here enjoy helping others but you also must help yourself.

 

DJP

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No one else either?

 

Patience is a .......

 

You didn't follow my advice in post no#3 ,  your overhang is still 32" and should be 8"-12"?   looking at photo but I used 4" ,it works best by the looks in the software

 

your default roof pitch is probably closer to 125/12  ( 85°) or nearly vertical  not 32 /12 as currently built

 

default overhang is set at 1/4" , it should be minimum 1 1/2 ? ( I used 2 1/4) otherwise you will lose the siding as seen as the fascia would be in the wall as it is 1 1/2" thick (usually) but maybe 3/4 thick with Siding tucked behind it.?

 

You are building the Roof on the 2nd floor , when it is actually being built off the 1st floor framing , your second floor is in the roof actually , so use the "ignore second floor" check box, and set your Gambrel up off the 1st floor walls not the 2nd.

 

I used a cross section elevation to determine your second floor ceiling is at 207"  , so I used that height in lieu of the real height for the 2nd pitch start at height. , see the pic below for the results.

 

The dishwasher area needs it Wall Roof setting changed to 4/12 or whatever it is ? if a shed roof? , it is defaulted to 32/12 so messing up the main roof.

 

hopefully you can do all this in Suite?

 

 

post-25-0-88926800-1429668944_thumb.jpg

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That's not going to work, Mick.

He has to manually build dormers on the 2nd floor.   :ph34r:

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No one has access to your home. No one but you can carefully measure it and then apply that data to your virtual model but you. None of us here have psychic powers to know for you or do for you without precise data only you have. After a point, you just open your Reference Manual, read it, practice what it conveys and then apply it to your situation. We can and do help but in the end, it is your project and your home. All of us here enjoy helping others but you also must help yourself.

 

DJP

 

David, understood, but the condescending tone is entirely unnecessary.  Based on the time you put in helping others here, and the help you've given me thus far, your post is very unexpected for me.  Perhaps you were having a bad day, which we all have and can relate to.  Thank you for your help up until this point, it appears Mick has given a very helpful post just below yours, so I will refer to that now. 

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Patience is a .......

 

You didn't follow my advice in post no#3 ,  your overhang is still 32" and should be 8"-12"?   looking at photo but I used 4" ,it works best by the looks in the software

 

your default roof pitch is probably closer to 125/12  ( 85°) or nearly vertical  not 32 /12 as currently built

 

default overhang is set at 1/4" , it should be minimum 1 1/2 ? ( I used 2 1/4) otherwise you will lose the siding as seen as the fascia would be in the wall as it is 1 1/2" thick (usually) but maybe 3/4 thick with Siding tucked behind it.?

 

You are building the Roof on the 2nd floor , when it is actually being built off the 1st floor framing , your second floor is in the roof actually , so use the "ignore second floor" check box, and set your Gambrel up off the 1st floor walls not the 2nd.

 

I used a cross section elevation to determine your second floor ceiling is at 207"  , so I used that height in lieu of the real height for the 2nd pitch start at height. , see the pic below for the results.

 

The dishwasher area needs it Wall Roof setting changed to 4/12 or whatever it is ? if a shed roof? , it is defaulted to 32/12 so messing up the main roof.

 

hopefully you can do all this in Suite?

 

 

attachicon.gifcorrected roof1.JPG

 

Mick, thank you very kindly for the detailed post!  Yes patience is in fact a virtue - noted.  

 

Just FYI, I did in fact change the overhang based on your first suggestion, but it made things worse (or appear to be worse anyway) so I hit undo.  That's why it's still 32".  I clearly needed more info, the info that you've very kindly provided.  I will now go through your post in detail and see what can and can't be done in Suite and report back.  I just wanted to post this asap to let you know I'm very appreciative.

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That's not going to work, Mick.

He has to manually build dormers on the 2nd floor.   :ph34r:

 

Hi JoAnn,

 

Thanks for chiming in.  Are you sure about this?  I guess I'll find out soon enough.  I'll let you know.

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You are building the Roof on the 2nd floor , when it is actually being built off the 1st floor framing , your second floor is in the roof actually , so use the "ignore second floor" check box, and set your Gambrel up off the 1st floor walls not the 2nd.

 

 

Mick,

 

I'm getting there, thanks to your post, and the above from you was the major key to my issue.  Makes perfect sense.

 

One question though - the attached pic is where I'm at, after following all your instructions (at least I think!)  You see how the bottom end is slightly covering the tops of the windows and front door?  Which of the settings you outlined is what adjusts this?

 

By the way, it appears Suite only allows a max pitch of 96 in 12, unless one of my other settings is preventing it from going above that.  However it appears that for where I'm at, that will suffice.

 

Thanks.

post-2548-0-80526900-1429717750_thumb.jpg

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Mick, never mind I got it.  It's the Overhang setting that was causing it.  Your setting of 4 likely worked ok because you were able to get your to a 125/12 pitch.  I can only use 96, so I had to adjust my overhand to 2"

 

Thanks again!!!

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Hi , I found the same 96/12 limitation in the Wall DBX    until I 1st set the default Roof Pitch in the "Build Roof DBX" to 125  in 12, it then becomes the standard pitch and you only need to alter the Upper pitch setting.

 

Same issue as you with the windows and doors and I had to set the eave overhang to 3-4 inches to get it closer to right , I also used the other settings in the Build Roof DBX ,under "ignore 2nd floor"  ,not sure what you have in Suite

 

This appears to be a tough roof for the Software and  Jo_Ann maybe correct that in Suite the Dormers will be an issue to Autobuild ,Auto Dormers can't be built in two Roof planes per your image , and in Suite you have no manual roof tools, however , it will let you still place windows in the 2nd floor walls so it will look "kinda right" though shows obvious issues.

post-25-0-49683200-1429722984_thumb.jpg

 

I'm thinking you may have issues with Roof lines adding the RH extension on to the House too and the dishwasher Area ,as the gambrel settings seem to be playing with the Roof height at this point anyway

 

Perhaps Jo_Ann will post a solution , She is great with workarounds but I'll add my play plan , hopefully you can open it to view at least if not edit it.

 

Gambrel Roof TestE_R2.plan

M.

 

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Mick,

I wish I could have opened the plan you uploaded, but I can't.  What version program did you use?

If I had been able to open the plan, I could have done a better re-creation of stpete111's house plan.

 

stpete111,

This version of the plan was done in HDA10, so to open it you will have to download the free trial version of HDA2016 (HDA is the MOST similiar to Suite...Pro has too many choices and that would be confusing).

 

You will then be able to see the settings that I used, and apply that to your own plan.

I had to raise the 1st floor ceiling (of the main house) to 9', to make the front roof eave (height) look correct.  Overhang settings are also critical.

After your roof is entirely correct, you can turn off 'auto build roof' and re-lower the 1st floor ceiling to 8'.

 

On the 2nd floor, you would then check 'ceiling over this room' and raise the ceiling to 8'.

You can then begin tweaking the walls upstairs, too.  If you have already added interior walls to the entire house, then you have somewhat sabotaged yourself.  :o

 

You can never ever never rebuild the roof again after you have changed these settings!

post-63-0-86893300-1429727222_thumb.jpg

gambrel roof with dormers.zip

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Mick,

I wish I could have opened the plan you uploaded, but I can't.  What version program did you use?

If I had been able to open the plan, I could have done a better re-creation of stpete111's house plan.

 

stpete111,

This version of the plan was done in HDA10, so to open it you will have to download the free trial version of HDA2016 (HDA is the MOST similiar to Suite...Pro has too many choices and that would be confusing).

 

You will then be able to see the settings that I used, and apply that to your own plan.

I had to raise the 1st floor ceiling (of the main house) to 9', to make the front roof eave (height) look correct.  Overhang settings are also critical.

After your roof is entirely correct, you can turn off 'auto build roof' and re-lower the 1st floor ceiling to 8'.

 

On the 2nd floor, you would then check 'ceiling over this room' and raise the ceiling to 8'.

You can then begin tweaking the walls upstairs, too.  If you have already added interior walls to the entire house, then you have somewhat sabotaged yourself.  :o

 

You can never ever never rebuild the roof again after you have changed these settings!

 

 

JoAnn!  Wow, thank you for this!   Point well taken on never rebuilding the roof again, and the critical importance of turning off Auto Rebuild roofs after getting everything right. 

 

I do wonder why I have a problem since yes I have already done all the interior walls?  

 

I will go grab the trial of Architectural right now. 

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Hi , I found the same 96/12 limitation in the Wall DBX    until I 1st set the default Roof Pitch in the "Build Roof DBX" to 125  in 12, it then becomes the standard pitch and you only need to alter the Upper pitch setting.

 

Same issue as you with the windows and doors and I had to set the eave overhang to 3-4 inches to get it closer to right , I also used the other settings in the Build Roof DBX ,under "ignore 2nd floor"  ,not sure what you have in Suite

 

This appears to be a tough roof for the Software and  Jo_Ann maybe correct that in Suite the Dormers will be an issue to Autobuild ,Auto Dormers can't be built in two Roof planes per your image , and in Suite you have no manual roof tools, however , it will let you still place windows in the 2nd floor walls so it will look "kinda right" though shows obvious issues.

attachicon.gifDormer windows.JPG

 

I'm thinking you may have issues with Roof lines adding the RH extension on to the House too and the dishwasher Area ,as the gambrel settings seem to be playing with the Roof height at this point anyway

 

Perhaps Jo_Ann will post a solution , She is great with workarounds but I'll add my play plan , hopefully you can open it to view at least if not edit it.

 

attachicon.gifGambrel Roof TestE_R2.plan

M.

 

Thank you for this additional effort, Mick.  I am in fact having some trouble translating your settings in your attached plan to my real plan (the one that includes the rest of the house, not the example I uploaded).  I'm not yet sure why this is, but I am continuing to tweak to see if I can figure it out.  I actually was able to open your plan in Suite - it just gave me a warning message basically saying "Modifications may be limited by the person who created this plan."  So I started trying to transfer what you have in your settings to my real plan.  My main issue is the back wall (the issue most assuredly being caused by that dishwasher area you speak of.  I did what you suggested in my real plan, but the back part of the roof won't match the first part.  So I know, now I'm wondering why I didn't just upload my real plan to begin with... DOH!

 

Ok so right now I'm going to go grab the Trial of Architectural to take a look at JoAnn's model and see what I might be able to grab out of that.  I'll report back, and possibly upload my real full house plan if this starts getting too hairy!

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JoAnn, slight sidebar here - I'm looking at the comparison matrix of Architectural vs Suite to see if it's worth me spending the extra $100 to upgrade.  It really seems the main difference is the additional templates and library items in Architectural.  Does that sound right?  

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stpete111,

1. If you have to change ceiling heights back and forth for an entire floor, you will know why it was not beneficial to yourself to have many rooms to change (on each floor).  You'll see...

 

2. HDA has many more tools and more versatility than Suite.  If you plan to dabble in the software for more than just one project, I think it is well worth the upgrade.  Play with the trial download, and you'll see for yourself.

 

P.S.  Although you can't save anything in the trial....you can open both my plan, and your own plan at the same time (within the trial version)  and tile them vertically.  It makes it convenient to change your settings and see how it affects your model, without having to open and close 2 plans in different programs.  Experiment...you can't damage your original plan.

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stpete111,

1. If you have to change ceiling heights back and forth for an entire floor, you will know why it was not beneficial to yourself to have many rooms to change (on each floor).  You'll see...

 

2. HDA has many more tools and more versatility than Suite.  If you plan to dabble in the software for more than just one project, I think it is well worth the upgrade.  Play with the trial download, and you'll see for yourself.

 

P.S.  Although you can't save anything in the trial....you can open both my plan, and your own plan at the same time (within the trial version)  and tile them vertically.  It makes it convenient to change your settings and see how it affects your model, without having to open and close 2 plans in different programs.  Experiment...you can't damage your original plan.

 

Thanks again JoAnn,

 

1. Oh, actually I've been having to change ceiling heights via individual room this whole time anyway - it's definitely time-consuming but I'm used to it.  Small price to pay for getting this right.

2. Ok I will take a look and consider the upgrade

 

So I'm looking at your plan now in Architectural trial - I see you did two interior walls for the outside walls?  And did you build the walls of the dormers manually?  Just trying to determine exactly what I'm doing in Suite...

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Quick question - anyone know why my attic walls look like wood like this, while you all's is correctly the siding?

 

Thanks.

 

 

post-2548-0-54183100-1429743759_thumb.jpg

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stpete111,

Don't judge a wall by it's color.  :)

If you click on the wall to view it's properties, you will see that it is a thinner exterior wall.   A thinner wall was the only way that would allow me to extend the front walls of each dormer, out further (to lengthen them).

 

The dormers have to be done manually.

 

I don't know what is going on with your attic walls.

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Quick question - anyone know why my attic walls look like wood like this, while you all's is correctly the siding?

 

Thanks.

 

I think I detect a Southern Drawl :)

 

quoted per earlier post in thread............

 

"your default overhang is set at 1/4" , it should be minimum 1 1/2 ? ( I used 2 1/4) otherwise you will lose the siding as seen, as the fascia would be in the wall as it is 1 1/2" thick (usually) but maybe 3/4 thick with Siding tucked behind it.?"

 

....some more info......

 

the fascia is part of the Roof System and Roofs ALWAYS cut walls , so keep fascia off the wall , the overhang measurement is to the back of the fascia from the STUD (main layer) not the siding, so make it to big to start and sneak it back in till the siding disappears or do some math and figure out what it needs to be if you fascia is hard on the siding.

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@Jo   I used X7 as Stpete is using 2016 and I couldn't open the file in HD Pro 10 , yours on the other hand I could... I thought you had Pro 2016 Trial now though?

 

I noticed your 4" ext. walls but couldn't figure out the why???  

 

Honestly I did not think you could do that on the 2nd floor with the Roof settings , but I have never figured out why the overhangs don't work like they should with Gambrel Roofs and you end up having to set it so it doesn't extend too far down, rather than at the correct measurement.

 

Not sure why you have a wall missing between the 1st and 2nd dormers?  though you may have mistaken the Soffit for an invisible wall in plan view? I'm guessing the soffit was to make the roof edge look more like the photo?

 

The inside of the Dormers need a bunch of work to clean them up , I'll have another look tomorrow , when I have more time.

 

M.

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