solver Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Have defined a wall that is 2, 2x4 walls separated by several inches. See the image. Framing does not show for this wall. Any ideas why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Did you rebuild the framing after defining the new wall type ? It appears from the Definition Tab pic that the main layer is 5" thick, which should be an Air Gap Material ,but I cant tell from pic if the Air Gap is selected , though I see Fir studs on 24" centres ? have you defined the Main Layer as as the Gap between the walls so they join correctly or for some other reason? Mick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Chief/HD apparently calls these walls Marriage Walls though I have never heard the term , there is a Tut. for Chief but Chief has an option for double walls on the Wall DBX unlike Pro , though I think you probably just have something defined incorrectly. http://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/article/KB-00925/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidJPotter Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I couldn't get the framing to work either, it seems to be a limitation (bug) in that you cannot actually assign two "Main Layers" to a custom wall type as you would need for this particular wall type. It seems to only want to build framing in only one structural or main layer per custom wall type. DJP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidJPotter Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 BTW I could not get it to work in Chief Premier X6 either and have submitted it to Tech Support as a "Bug". You should be able to designate two "Main Layers" and have framing build properly (I have done this successfully in past versions). We will see what they say in due time. DJP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 After reading David's comment about past versions working , I thought I'd give it a quick try since I use Pro10 , though I don't ever remember being able to set two wall layers as a "Main Layer" , and I'm not sure how that would work actually since everything to do with Walls is based around the Main Layer , eg how they join, how they align above and below, how dimensions work etc etc. Setting up a wall same as yours with a 5" air gap between the 2x6 and 2x4 wall layers was no problem, and it draws just fine in plan view but to my surprise when going to the 3D Framing overview it shows nothing for the inner wall at all. Weirder still is in dollhouse view the inner wall is drawn (sorta correctly as solid fir not studs) but the exterior wall has only siding and OSB no Framing. Only way I could get it to work was to redefine the exterior wall by removing the 2x4 layer and drywall but leaving the airgap , and then drawing a redefined interior wall with drywall only on one side. Leaving the AirGap on the Exterior wall allows you to bump the Int. 2x4 wall up against it for exact spacing. the Int. Wall will still try to join the main layer of the exterior wall , but once you go around a corner , it is easy to select the wall and pull it back so it joins with the interior wall instead. See David's video link below showing this method if this explanation isn't clear enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solver Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Thanks for the effort. After setting Main Layer correctly I too get one 2x4 wall showing in Framing views. Plan and 3D views are the most important right now. I was pleased to see doors and windows work. Be good to be able to model some of the walls used when building well insulated houses. Vertical trusses and I-Joist, walls with interior and exterior horizontal strapping etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Are you saying you got it to work ? if so what settings did you use? Not sure what you mean by vertical truss but HD already uses I-joists if you set the framing in the Floor structure up that way. Are you referring to seismic strapping? Mick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solver Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Did not get it to work. Only shows framing in one wall, either the inside or outside, depending on which is the Main Layer. I was thinking about I-joist for walls, and open web trusses for walls. Both a way of creating a deep wall space for insulation. Horizontal strapping -- On a cold climate wall, a plastic vapor barrier is often placed just below the sheetrock. Sometimes, 2x material is applied horizontally to the wall on top of the vapor barrier creating a wiring chase so the vapor barrier is not punctured, and helping to eliminate a bit of thermal bridging. On the outside you could do something similar, for installing vertical siding, or creating a rain screen detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Interesting ...I have not seen/heard of the use of I-joists for Walls mentioned before or the horn. strapping for a wiring chase but most of the work I do is Reno's on 20-120yr old homes not new builds. However both VB and Rainscreen are Code here ,though I don't model either usually as it is "accepted practice" and can't be done without , usually a note in the Typical Wall Section would be it. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidJPotter Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I haven't been able to bring to a full understanding within Tech Support as to the specific problem as yet (I am still tying). They referred me to an article about double walls which works fine in X6 IF the two walls touch each other (which is not what the OP originally wanted to do). What I should clarify is that the way the OP tried to solve his problem does not work in Pro or Premier but what does work and does follow the way the softwre is programmed to work is shown in the following video. In any case I figured out a workable solution to this unique problem (see the You Tube video I made of my solution: http://youtu.be/ImvwGsY8OFU DJP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Yes, It works in older versions too David, that is what I did in Post no#6 to get it too work too using Pro 10. Perhaps you should refer Tech Support to this thread so they understand the Issue ? these kind of walls are becoming more popular for energy efficiency homes, at least in my reading of Fine Home Building (FHB) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidJPotter Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Mick, since I found a workable solution there is no reason to further bother Tech Support when a useful route already exists. I had thought (wrongly) that we had found a bug when in fact, it turned out to be another lesson learned. DJP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidJPotter Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 By the way, I figured out how to get You Tube to display higher resolution videos just now, so I reposted the video I made earlier in this thread but you can now select HD view settings for it while watching it on line, here is the new instance of the same video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kNnwondfDk&feature=youtu.be DJP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solver Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 Thanks for the video David. Did you try adding windows and doors? This is why I'd like to see this as a native wall type. The wall I defined, because it's a single wall I suppose, supports penetrations like doors and windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Although we both found the same workaround to get both walls to show in 3D , we have different views I guess on whether it is / there is a bug , did you try placing a door or window ? I maybe doing something wrong but I cant get either to cut a hole in the second wall , in either Pro 10 or Pro 2015 Trial , only difference is in 2015 I can assign a specific Jamb width and it will extend beyond the 1st wall , at least for Windows , same setting on doors does not work , on windows the jamb sticks thru the wall but still doesn't cut a hole..... but perhaps I missed a setting since I am not real familiar with 2015 ( or X6) EDIT I see Solver posted about the Windows and Doors too as I was writing this..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Mick, I think you'll find, the only way to get a door, window or other penetration to show properly is to define it as Solver did in his original post, but as you both found out, doing it that way will only allow the wall selected as the "main" layer to show up in the framing over view. Hopefully the tech guys will give us a better fix. I have done a couple of projects recently where I needed a chase wall similar to solvers, and it drove me crazy trying to get walls to connect properly, framing to show as designed and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 The thread on Basement windows has a similar issue https://hometalk.chiefarchitect.com/index.php?/topic/430-basement-windows/ and as I said there: the only way I can think of is to place a Window Pass Thru or Doorway the same size as the Door or Window in the Interior Wall , as it seems currently double walls are not supported properly ....pretty surprising given that nearly all basements these days have interior walls at the perimeter to meet Code (insulation) this would/could mean a fair amount of extra work though depending on the project . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidJPotter Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Here is another video with window and doors installed with framing: http://youtu.be/0jH_rNVXQyY DJP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 this won't help you Solver as it doesn't work with the framing still but copying an existing two layer wall at least gets you the window and door cuts outs thru both Walls..... From the Basement wall thread: I played with this tonight and the Pass thru and Doorway Option mentioned above in my post does Work but it is a bit of work to line stuff up but Bob's image above got me thinking, "What if we alter an existing 2 layer Wall" , ie a Brick Wall as it already "knows" the windows and doors must pass thru both walls .....and it does work ! (but does not help with Framing views sorry) Start by copying the 4 or 6 inch Brick wall ,and then altering the layers to the required material and thicknesses eg: The Brick becomes 3/4" siding/stucco or 8" thick Concrete or ? 1/2" OSB is the same 0" Building wrap is the same etc see image the view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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