Best process for HDA: Plat map -> Plan with correct bearings?

[clbpdx]

I've been trying to understand the intended process for creating an accurately oriented finished plan where:

1)  Terrain is entered according to my plat map data for our lot (compass quadrant bearings, lengths, curve data)

2)  House walls are not perpendicular nor parallel to our lot property lines

3)  House walls and other features are *easily* entered, without having to manually calculate and adjust angles with respect to True North (i.e., vertically "up-screen" is parallel to a primary house wall while entering data).

 

Given that I'm using HD Architecture (not Pro), I'm scratching my head as to what process the folks at Chief Architect think I SHOULD be following to do this.
I'm also wondering what I should do NOW, since I'm basically done entering the (pre-remodel) plan for our house where "vertically "up-screen" is from front to back (and heading roughly Northwest).

 

I've found the article on how to draw a plot plan:  https://www.homedesignersoftware.com/support/article/KB-00850/drawing-a-plot-plan.html, that shows applicability to HD Architecture.

I've also found various forum postings by DJP and others like https://hometalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/1666-plat-map-help/#comment-9629.

 

Can anybody help explain the least painful plat/plan orientation process for HD Architecture?  Is this just an intended limitation and frustration for getting folks to upgrade to HD Pro (i.e., the addition of the "North Pointer" tool)?

Thanks!

 

PS:  I'm still a relatively new user -- please forgive me if I've missed something obvious.  It takes quite a while to watch all those videos and read postings ;-)

 

[solver]

Is your house located on your plat -- the paper version?

 

Is the house already drawn on the terrain?

[clbpdx]

Hi Eric,

Although the house is not drawn on the paper plat, I found the surveyor pins at our property corners.  I then used a long tape measure to get distances from pins to the house front corners, so I've got very precise azimuth/distances hence setbacks, etc.

 

Yes, I quickly drew a terrain on the HDA plan with respect to the house walls, but have not cross-checked it thoroughly yet.  So both the property lines and the house will need to be rotated or otherwise referenced properly with respect to True North.  I could easily re-draw terrain with respect to True North (instead of the house) if that's the better way to go about it.

Thanks!

 

[solver]

I'm not clear about you have but will assume the terrain has been adjusted to represent your plat and the house is on the terrain in its correct position. The house walls are not square with the screen (drawing sheet).

 

I would get the angle of a house wall, then rotate the entire plan so that the front house wall is square with the screen.

 

Posting your plan file, or a screen capture of what you have drawn will help.

[clbpdx]

Thanks Eric,

Attached is a screen shot.  As I mentioned in my original post, I've already entered the house plan such that vertically "up screen" is from front to back of the house.  By that I meant that the screen is square with the house.

 

Vertically up on the screen is approximately Northwest direction in the real world (not implicitly North, or +90deg ala Home Designer Architecture).  As mentioned, the terrain is entered quickly/roughly using methods that are relative to the house.  If I were to enter the terrain using compass bearing info relative to True North from the plat according to KB article   https://www.homedesignersoftware.com/support/article/KB-00850/drawing-a-plot-plan.html, I'd have a terrain that is NOT oriented correctly vs. house.

 

So I'm trying to figure out what's the best way forward here for HD Architecture.  Let's say that I leave the house square with the screen, which I think is the right way.  I think house rotation would be a pain for future plan edits.  Would you recommend re-entering the terrain lot boundary precisely from plat bearings, and then do a lot of fiddling around with rotation and placement shifts of the terrain until things line up right?

 

I'd much rather be able to tell Home Designer that vertically up the screen (parallel to a house wall) is actually bearing N70deg12'45"W, and then just enter my terrain property lines using plat bearings as per the KB article.  Is that a convenience only HD Pro users enjoy, or is there an easy way using HD Architecture too?  I hope I've explained things better this time...

 

 

[solver]

You have the plat and the location of the house on it. Enter this information into the software in a new plan -- a single CAD line representing one front wall on the house, and one corner is all you need for the house.

 

Select that line, get its angle, then select everything and rotate so that that line is now parallel with the bottom of the screen.

 

Select everything and copy into the the file with your plan.Use Point to Point Move from the house corner located on the plat to the same corner on the drawn house.

 

56 minutes ago, clbpdx said:

I'd much rather be able to tell Home Designer that vertically up the screen (parallel to a house wall) is actually bearing N70deg12'45"W, and then just enter my terrain property lines using plat bearings as per the KB article.  Is that a convenience only HD Pro users enjoy, or is there an easy way using HD Architecture too?  I hope I've explained things better this time...

 

I did not see where the article said you could assign vertical up in Pro.  

[clbpdx]

Creating a separate plan file with lot terrain and house wall alignment marks is a novel approach!

 

Regarding Pro, I didn't get that notion from the KB article.  I searched around and discovered reference to the "North Pointer" in the product comparison matrix, and then found things like this in the Pro reference manual"

"The North Pointer tool is used to define the direction of true north in a plan. The direction of north does not affect the orientation of the Snap and Reference
grids, but it does affect the direction of sunlight and sun shadows, how conditioned area totals are calculated, and how bearing information is interpreted by the program."

 

Because getting plat lot bearings accurately placed onto a plan that's screen-aligned to house walls appears to be a painful / non-obvious process, I was thinking this "North Pointer" feature is a deliberate up-sell tool.  I haven't installed Pro to experiment with the limits/scope of this "North Pointer" tool yet.  I was hoping one of you experts has been down this road before and could shed light on things :-).

 

Does this "North Pointer" tool do anything to make this plat entry and house orientation process less painful?

Thanks again!

[DavidJPotter]

The basics are to draw the house relative to your desktop so most wall angles are 90 and 45-degree angles. Then you establish a North Pointer for true magnetic North relative to the house. The terrain and property lines are again adjusted to the desktop orientation of the structure and also relative to magnetic North. YOU NEVER ROTATE THE STRUCTURE, RATHER THE ONLY OBJECTS TO BE ROTATED ARE TERRAIN PLANE, PROPERTY LINES, AND ELEVATION OBJECTS AND OTHER PLOT PLAN SPECIFIC OBJECTS, ALL RELATIVE TO THE HOUSE STRUCTURE. 

The North Pointer also controls the Sun angle relative to shadows for render views with shadows. All you need to know is in the Reference Manual but the first time to create one is the hardest.

 

DJP

[clbpdx]

Thanks much DJP!

You mentioned magnetic North twice, but I can't find Pro reference manual mention of magnetic North (or magnetic declination/variation, etc.).  It's all written as True North (i.e., geographic) North.  Is handling of magnetic North instead a Premiere or Interiors capability?

 

Yeah, house rotation seemed like a REALLY bad idea to me.  Once that's painstakingly done, any house edits would then be painful.

 

With Pro, what happens if you FIRST set up the North Pointer, and THEN you enter terrain using the length and compass bearing specs
as described in the KB article https://www.homedesignersoftware.com/support/article/KB-00850/drawing-a-plot-plan.html ?
Is terrain rotation still required, or does Pro obey the North Pointer, and draw property lines with the correct rotation angle?

 

The nirvana application process/behavior for me would be something like:
1) Draw house with (most) walls square to the screen, never to be rotated.
2) Tell the app which screen direction is True North (e.g., North Pointer), by clicking on any house wall (or any other line) and then entering its
compass bearing with respect to True North.
3) Draw terrain property lines by entering plat data as per the KB article, with no terrain rotation necessary.
4) XY re-position the terrain property lines simply by clicking on a house corner then property line, and then specifying setback distance.

 

Eric's suggestions for HD Architecture of creating a separate plan file for terrain that includes house alignment marks
seem like a great approach.  Do you have any other tricks that would be helpful for us Architecture users?

Thanks again!

[DavidJPotter]

1 hour ago, clbpdx said:

2) Tell the app which screen direction is True North (e.g., North Pointer), by clicking on any house wall (or any other line) and then entering its
compass bearing with respect to True North.

 

No, No< NO! You establish a North Pointer relative to the house (How Magnetic North vectors relative to the North-South of your Desktop). If you enter a compass bearing in a wall, it will just mess up the wall. Architectural does not have a "North Pointer" as Pro does (sorry) so setting up true North in Architectural is near impossible and easy in Home Designer Pro (you do get what you pay for).

 

Then when a magnetic North is established when you enter the distance and bearing data I will then set those lines to the established magnetic North that you manually established earlier. Terran elevation data is usually entered manually as to relative height for a lot.

 

Architectural costs about half of what HD Pro does for good reason, sorry.

 

DJP

[clbpdx]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest that a compass bearing would be entered into the existing Wall Specification dialog / Wall Angle.  Instead, I was thinking that clicking on any house wall (or other line) would be done similarly as part of the North Pointer dialog, as a way to tell it what North is relative to the house.

 

You mentioned "magnetic North" twice again.  So Pro can indeed work in terms of magnetic North in addition to True (Geographic) North?

So no rotation of terrain is needed in Pro either, just re-positioning?

 

Glad to know that HD Pro makes this process easier/better. 

[DavidJPotter]

1 hour ago, clbpdx said:

You mentioned "magnetic North" twice again.  So Pro can indeed work in terms of magnetic North in addition to True (Geographic) North?

So no rotation of terrain is needed in Pro either, just re-positioning?

 

Unless I am mistaken, Architectural has no"North Pointer" object that controls the magnetic North of the plan file. Pro does, the North Pointer determines "North" for the entire plan file and structure, it also controls the Sun Angle by a preset clock so you can do shadow studies if necessary. You cannot do this in Architectural (I could be wrong but I do not think so). I cannot state this more clearly. With a Magnetic North Pointer controls input lines' compass bearing for the property lines (again an HD Pro facility only, I believe). In Architectural, I would lean towards using a scanned site or plot plan (received from a licensed surveyor) which you can import, scale and orientate relative to the house structure or structures. They usually have a graphic North Pointer which can be used to establish magnetic North, all done manually by you using the software's provided tools.

 

BTW I consider geographic and magnetic to be equivocal in this sense.

 

DJP