PCWdesignbuild

Issues with Render in 2019

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On 3/16/2018 at 2:07 PM, PCWdesignbuild said:

Installed the update.  No changes.

 

I was advised to turn off ambient occlusion - I did so.  No change.  My renderings are still the same as they were in the attached photos.  

 

Turning Off Ambient Occlusion is a fix for AMD Cards and the new PBR Views in Chief , it is a known issue ... it does not help with Standard View AFAIAA , personally I don't like AO anyway so only have it at 15-20% and I think Bloom "softens" the View too much as well..., but the 2019 Titles and X10 seem to need way more "Light" in STD View to make them look good ...about double, so add plenty or turn the one's you have Up....way Up... at least that whatI had to do to the Images below that looked good in X9. The new Sun lux setting seems to have little effect in STD View but in PBR (x10 only 500-2000  works) it is hugely different.

 

I would say you need to play with your Lighting....and if you haven't added any ? then that is the issue perhaps , you can no longer rely on HD to provide "automatic" lighting and get away with it as even with the Interior Ambient at 50-60% it is not enough on it's own. , then again perhaps the AMD Cards have other Issues too? I use a Nvidia 1070ti now...

 

Another post on AMD and AO issues....

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/17322-chief-x10-lousy-camera-views/

 

Post Your Plan and let Eric or I or DJP have a look at it.....

 

 

Also, it's good to have your Forum Signature filled in, especially with the Software Version,
and of course a Name is nice too :) ..............see mine below in Blue for how to do that.
If you don't see my Signature then you have them turned off for the Forum
Toggle it on in UserName>Account >Signatures...... go to the Upper RH Corner of Forum Window.

 

M.

 

 

9.thumb.JPG.a7029221ad46f18d19e2b20f02c8ff0c.JPG10.thumb.JPG.a26310564ccd9e5b1d0fc9dc5b58766d.JPG

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I think that the quality of the 3D render was already headed south with the 2018 versions.

Compare these 2 renders:

Left is HDA10 final view with shadows.

Right is HDA2018 with reflections,shadows, and edge smoothing all checked...bloom is unchecked.

In the 2018 version, the lines of the cabinets, appliances, and furniture are all blurred. Doesn't matter if edge smoothing is turned off.  The stool seats have no reflection, either.

 

Which render would you rather have?

When you upgrade to a newer version from an older version, wouldn't you expect it to be better?

 

HDA10 final view---HDA2018 shadows,reflections,edge smoothing added.jpg

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I got the same response. Also, no change. I was also advised by tech to minimize ambient occlusion.

Edited by alfrosen6
Incomplete reply.
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14 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

 

Turning Off Ambient Occlusion is a fix for AMD Cards and the new PBR Views in Chief , it is a known issue ... it does not help with Standard View AFAIAA , personally I don't like AO anyway so only have it at 15-20% and I think Bloom "softens" the View too much as well..., but the 2019 Titles and X10 seem to need way more "Light" in STD View to make them look good ...about double, so add plenty or turn the one's you have Up....way Up... at least that whatI had to do to the Images below that looked good in X9. The new Sun lux setting seems to have little effect in STD View but in PBR (x10 only 500-2000  works) it is hugely different.

 

I would say you need to play with your Lighting....and if you haven't added any ? then that is the issue perhaps , you can no longer rely on HD to provide "automatic" lighting and get away with it as even with the Interior Ambient at 50-60% it is not enough on it's own. , then again perhaps the AMD Cards have other Issues too? I use a Nvidia 1070ti now...

 

Another post on AMD and AO issues....

https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/topic/17322-chief-x10-lousy-camera-views/

 

Post Your Plan and let Eric or I or DJP have a look at it.....

 

 

Also, it's good to have your Forum Signature filled in, especially with the Software Version,
and of course a Name is nice too :) ..............see mine below in Blue for how to do that.
If you don't see my Signature then you have them turned off for the Forum
Toggle it on in UserName>Account >Signatures...... go to the Upper RH Corner of Forum Window.

 

M.

 

 

9.thumb.JPG.a7029221ad46f18d19e2b20f02c8ff0c.JPG10.thumb.JPG.a26310564ccd9e5b1d0fc9dc5b58766d.JPG

 

 

I appreciate your input, but I'm not sure you read the preceding posts?  It doesn't matter the plan - a plan of my own, or a template - lights added, or lights turned on, ambient lighting turned way up or not.  AMD as well as other cards are having this issue.  

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Not sure if this will help you, but I get a BIG difference in renders if "use enhanced lighting" is not checked.  "EDIT">"PREFERENCES">"RENDER"

Also make sure your hardware edge smoothing is set to high.

 

 

Capture.JPG

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4 hours ago, PCWdesignbuild said:

 

 

I appreciate your input, but I'm not sure you read the preceding posts?  It doesn't matter the plan - a plan of my own, or a template - lights added, or lights turned on, ambient lighting turned way up or not.  AMD as well as other cards are having this issue.  

 

 

Of course I read it ....would I of have answered if not ?  Just trying to help and add some Ideas to try....

 

I already stated there are known Issues with AMD Cards and that C.A. is working on it....can they fix it ? your guess is as good as mine. You are not the only one with the Issue unfortunately , and it may mean a new VideoCard or sticking with an older Version of the Programs.

 

As AppleWalker pointed out you could try unchecking " use enhanced lighting " , this should ALWAYS be ON , Chief has stated on Chieftalk and only turned off if Tech Supports suggests it for Trouble Shooting. If you have a reasonable VideoCard then set Hardware lines to High too.

 

M.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

 

Of course I read it ....would I of have answered if not ?  Just trying to help and add some Ideas to try....

 

I already stated there are known Issues with AMD Cards and that C.A. is working on it....can they fix it ? your guess is as good as mine. You are not the only one with the Issue unfortunately , and it may mean a new VideoCard or sticking with an older Version of the Programs.

 

As AppleWalker pointed out you could try unchecking " use enhanced lighting " , this should ALWAYS be ON , Chief has stated on Cheiftalk and only turned off if Tech Supports suggests it for Trouble Shooting . If you have a reasonable VideoCard then set Hardware lines to High too.

 

M.

 

 

 

I'm not trying to be terse, but both your and AppleWalker's suggestion about enhanced lighting proves the theory that the previous responses have not been read.  My hardware lines are on the lowest settings.  Those of us experiencing these issues have tried literally every combination of toggles and default and preference settings.  If it's a known issue with AMD (not something I've experienced before as a 10 year user of this software, several versions), then why are others with different video cards experiencing the same issues?  

 

You're experiencing no issues with rendering in HD Pro 2019?  

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16 hours ago, Jo_Ann said:

I think that the quality of the 3D render was already headed south with the 2018 versions.

Compare these 2 renders:

Left is HDA10 final view with shadows.

Right is HDA2018 with reflections,shadows, and edge smoothing all checked...bloom is unchecked.

In the 2018 version, the lines of the cabinets, appliances, and furniture are all blurred. Doesn't matter if edge smoothing is turned off.  The stool seats have no reflection, either.

 

Which render would you rather have?

When you upgrade to a newer version from an older version, wouldn't you expect it to be better?

 

HDA10 final view---HDA2018 shadows,reflections,edge smoothing added.jpg

 

Hi Jo. :)   yes something is amiss I agree....

 

Reflections are another Issue and poor in ALL versions of Chief Products I have seen ,due to the new Lighting Technique and Shadows used, Chief is working on all new Materials for the Core Catalogs and is putting Updates online about once a week  ( Use the Update Catalogs Menu Item ) they have stated , they are having to change all the material definitions due to the new Technique (PBR) and now Materials don't have reflective properties , not even in Raytrace in Chief which is an issue for many.

 

Do you have Hardware lines on High? it is set low by default I think ? to allow for poorer Video Cards initially , then like the Old "Final View" edge smooth while Idle will enhance once the Camera is not moving.

 

I do not have any of the HD 2018 titles and only use the Pro Trial ( 2019) to test for here and see what it is capable of, so i am not sure what Settings you have or don't have to play with, so perhaps I can't help much?

 

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40 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

 

Of course I read it ....would I of have answered if not ?  Just trying to help and add some Ideas to try....

 

As AppleWalker pointed out you could try unchecking " use enhanced lighting " , this should ALWAYS be ON , Chief has stated on Cheiftalk and only turned off if Tech Supports suggests it for Trouble Shooting . If you have a reasonable VideoCard then set Hardware lines to High too.

 

 

 

 

Mick, too funny :)

 

I just wanted to be clear, when I uncheck that enhanced lighting box, HD renders very poorly and without shadows.  I thought that might have been the issue here but apparently not...

 

Thanks for all your advice here and on the Chief forum, VERY HELPFUL!

 

-John 

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25 minutes ago, AppleWalker said:

Mick, too funny :)

 

I just wanted to be clear, when I uncheck that enhanced lighting box, HD renders very poorly and without shadows.  I thought that might have been the issue here but apparently not...

 

Thanks for all your advice here and on the Chief forum, VERY HELPFUL!

 

-John 

 

I meant for Testing only ...you are correct with it OFF you don't get Shadows or Reflections , in the new Version I have found that Shadows and reflections are more subdued, ( reflections aren't good as noted above anyway) but playing with the Sun Angle and Tilt in an Exterior View helps , the Default Sun doesn't make great Shadows inside , and of course Shadows change once you start adding lighting. If you don't add lighting in Interiors then HD will add a single Light in the Centre of the Room , since it needs at least one light to produce the View.

 

The advice on ChiefTalk is also to always built a Foundation and Roof to Control the Lighting as well, even if you Model doesn't need one eg a kitchen or Bathroom Reno and is even more important for PBR and Raytrace views to stop light "Bleed"

 

M.

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1 hour ago, PCWdesignbuild said:

 

I'm not trying to be terse, but both your and AppleWalker's suggestion about enhanced lighting proves the theory that the previous responses have not been read.  My hardware lines are on the lowest settings.  Those of us experiencing these issues have tried literally every combination of toggles and default and preference settings.  If it's a known issue with AMD (not something I've experienced before as a 10 year user of this software, several versions), then why are others with different video cards experiencing the same issues?  

 

You're experiencing no issues with rendering in HD Pro 2019?  

 

Chief x10 / HD 2019 has an all new Lighting Engine, which is causing Issues for many , especially with Older hardware / Drivers. Older AMD cards also have an issue with AO which produces Rings in the Image if set High, so they advise to turn it Off. Also if the Videocard memory is low ie <4GB, I think there maybe slowness too, cards with 1GB and 2GB will still Run it but the Settings will be lower as the card then has to use system Ram too , and if that is also low well...... I personally think the new Engine was "brought to market"  early and we are currently all Beta Testers , even with the new Released Versions , as evidenced by their mad rush to remake all the Chief Core Libraries and their Materials , something that should of been done Sooner since those of us on the Beta team have been reporting issues for a number of Months especially with Reflections , all clear glass is a particularly bad one and is hard to see in most views for items like WineGlasses or Light Fittings etc..

 

Can I get shadows yes , (with E.L. On as noted).... playing with the Sun Angles helps.... see pics below.... one anomaly I just experienced while making this Kitchen for the Pics was I made a Monolithic slab 1st and it was like a moonlit night in the Kitchen :) , deleted the mono-slab and built a standard basement and the kitchen lights "came back on" .

 

You can also see the subtle shadows in AppleWalkers Pic above , ie from the Island (?) or the rings from the pendant light...

 

25.thumb.JPG.3e775debaa97e1c866017db9fa12022e.JPG24.thumb.JPG.fadccb041ed7c831af5271623b4d3141.JPG

 

 

 

 

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I have just gotten a refund.  This is just not worth the frustration.  I have priced new modems and would have to spend at least $500 on a no frills modem.

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