Angie15

Dormer windows

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I am trying to get my dormer windows to look like this from this from the exterior and interior simultaneously on the the same plan. At the moment I'm using 2 different plans, but its ridiculous!

 

dormer 2.jpg

Dormer.jpg

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You need to describe the problem, with images, and post at least one of the plans so someone can help.

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The issue is that in order to create the gable dormers that look correct from the exterior view, I need to manually draw them, which means there are walls where there shouldn't be on the inside. In order to get the dormers correct on the inside, I need to use a different plan and use automatic shed dormers, turn auto roofs off, raise ceiling height and then delete surface (the roof plane/fascia) when exporting the picture. In some cases I need to use multiple soffits to cover holes in the walls too. If I need to move the dormer or edit the roof, I have to rebuild the roof and start the whole thing all over. 

Exterior dormer.plan

Exterior dormers.jpg

Exterior dormers-Interior view.jpg

Interior dormer.plan

Interior dormers.jpg

Interior dormers-Exterior view.jpg

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I think you could do this using manual dormers.

 

Make the walls that define the dormers invisible. This will leave a triangle gap above the roof.

 

Fill this gap with a wedge shape from the library -- use 2, one for the outside finish, and one for the inside. Do one side, then copy to the other dormer.

 

Make the ceiling finish thicker so it hides the fascia. Your wedge shape will cover the fascia matching up with the ceiling.

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Thanks Solver. I have done that in the past, however the problem with that is 1) Its incredibly time consuming to line up the inverted wedges exactly with the walls and sloping ceiling and 2) the wedge shape seems to be a different texture to the walls, meaning when I apply "white" to the walls, ceiling and the wedge, the wedge displays as a different "white" so its very noticeable.(Even more so when turning on shadows and lights) 

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I'm hitting exactly the same issue and its frustrating me somewhat that Home Designer Pro appears to layout floating dormers extremely well, but these non-floating ones (for lack of a better term) are proving to be incredibly difficult to build. Is there really no way to automate or improve on that process?

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@theallen

 

Please start a new thread. Since you have Pro, your options are different. Also post images if available of what you want to model, and your plan file so someone can give you the best help.

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I know what you are talking about but the bright side is the more you do them, the better you get at it and the quicker that work becomes. Tasks require what they require. Automatic tools, like the dormer tools, box and bay window tools and automatic roof returns always have programming limitations as part of their use. You just deal with things and move on.

 

DJP

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Can anyone tell me if its possible to do these dormer windows in Pro 2019 without the need for a thousand soffits and work-arounds?

I've downloaded the trial version and still cant get it right.

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10 minutes ago, Angie15 said:

Can anyone tell me if its possible to do these dormer windows in Pro 2019 without the need for a thousand soffits and work-arounds?

I've downloaded the trial version and still cant get it right.

 

I can tell you that. I have been using Chief Architect and Home Designer software since 1995, teaching it since 1999 but I learned early on that one needs to really study the documentation (Reference Manual, video tutorials followed by enough positive practice to really become competent ). If you do not love this creative work, enough to self-discipline your self to it, then you never will master it as a tool and just remain a frustrated amateur, it IS your choice.

 

DJP

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14 minutes ago, DavidJPotter said:

 

I can tell you that. I have been using Chief Architect and Home Designer software since 1995, teaching it since 1999 but I learned early on that one needs to really study the documentation (Reference Manual, video tutorials followed by enough positive practice to really become competent ). If you do not love this creative work, enough to self-discipline your self to it, then you never will master it as a tool and just remain a frustrated amateur, it IS your choice.

 

DJP

 

I have been using Home Designer since 2007 and could probably teach it equally as well as you, so I'm hardly an amateur, but that is irrelevant. Your attitude is almost as obnoxious as the software. All I asked was, are these dormer windows easy enough to do in HD Pro?  I did'nt ask how to do it, a yes or feckin no would've sufficed. I'll be damned if I'm going to spend the 400 odd quid upgrading and then still not be able to do it.

Thanks for the insight though, it was incredibly helpful and changed my whole outlook on life. 

 

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I'm going to re-phase the question since DavidJPotter seems to think this software is without limitations and every user other than himself is an idiot. Newsflash Davidoffyerpotter, if the software was limitless it wouldn't be $100.

Is it possible in HD Pro 2019 to build a dormer window as shown above, using the auto dormer tool without manually using soffits and inverted wedges and so that it looks the same externally and internally simultaneously?

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16 minutes ago, Angie15 said:

Is it possible in HD Pro 2019 to build a dormer window as shown above, using the auto dormer tool without manually using soffits and inverted wedges and so that it looks the same externally and internally simultaneously?

 

I rarely do dormers, but will suggest these may be done in Pro. I have found that if possible, using the auto dormer tools will usually give you a cleaner interior view, quicker than doing things manually.

 

I took a quick look at your plan, and noticed you have Use Soffit Surface For Ceiling checked in the rooms on the top floor, and a non default ceiling -- 30mm instead of 10mm. 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, solver said:

 

I rarely do dormers, but will suggest these may be done in Pro. I have found that if possible, using the auto dormer tools will usually give you a cleaner interior view, quicker than doing things manually.

 

I took a quick look at your plan, and noticed you have Use Soffit Surface For Ceiling checked in the rooms on the top floor, and a non default ceiling -- 30mm instead of 10mm. 

 

 

Hi Solver. I agree that auto dormers are far cleaner, hence I'm trying to find a way to rather use them.

I've just opened the same plan and use soffit for ceiling is not checked and the ceiling is 10mm on mine?

However, that doesn't really make any difference from the exterior view. 

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This is in the Exterior Dormer plan. I'm viewing in Chief Premier, but it should not make a difference.

 

I mentioned it because you said above colors were not matching.

 

ht1.thumb.jpg.3e2a944478f7f5cb08ee32667ed25c25.jpg

 

 

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2 minutes ago, solver said:

This is in the Exterior Dormer plan. I'm viewing in Chief Premier, but it should not make a difference.

 

I mentioned it because you said above colors were not matching.

 

ht1.thumb.jpg.3e2a944478f7f5cb08ee32667ed25c25.jpg

 

 

Yes, apologies on the Exterior plan it is so. 

If I make those interior walls invisible and use an inverted wedge to cover the holes, the wedge (even though its coloured the same) isn't the same "white" as the ceiling or walls so its very visible. Its not only white btw, it could be blue, green etc. The shapes seem to have a different "texture" to the walls and ceiling so they display as a different colour.

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Use the break wall tool and create the room(s) and gable them. Click on the room that was not created and lower the ceiling height. You will know

what to do next. Pro and Premier can do this easily, Suite doesn't allow you to build dormers manually.

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If you are doing lots of these type roofs  (as you said),  then you really should upgrade to Pro to save yourself from frustration and time loss.


Only Pro  (with manual roof tools) offers the option  "roof cuts wall at bottom".  This is what will eliminate the side walls protruding into the room, and keep the 'triangles" of the exterior/interior walls displayed.  


However, this leaves an ugly gap in the interior ceiling. 

Pro has "ceiling planes" that are usually helpful, but in this case, I could not get them to work.  


Sooo...I used a "sloped" soffit  (offered in Pro and Architectural versions).  After sizing and placing it correctly, I copy/pasted for the other "dormer rooms". 

This worked well, and was QUICK to do.

 

LawB10: Suite does allow you to build dormers manually.

 

image.thumb.png.f9be41e3ac4262e27ca4a8860ca74a71.png

 

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There is always more than one way to get a result.


Presuming that you are still experimenting with the trial Pro...


In this example (Pro) I deleted your "attic" walls with the half height ceiling of 1580mm, and instead set the entire main room ceiling to be 1580mm.  You also need to uncheck "use soffit surface for ceiling".   I then added "divider walls" to the dormers, setting them as separate "rooms" with the default ceiling height of 2480mm ("use soffit surface for ceiling" needs to be  unchecked).  
At this time, turn OFF "auto build roof" and then reset the main room ceiling to the default height.

You will still need to set "roof cuts wall at bottom" for each of the dormer side walls. It doesn't seem to matter if this is done before or after "auto build roof" is turned OFF.


In this scenario, the ceiling builds as it should, without the need to use sloped soffits to cover up ceiling gaps.


Who knew?!

 

image.thumb.png.a9be4057ec658c4edf5985130376f9a3.png

 

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On 9/13/2018 at 6:00 PM, Jo_Ann said:

There is always more than one way to get a result.


Presuming that you are still experimenting with the trial Pro...


In this example (Pro) I deleted your "attic" walls with the half height ceiling of 1580mm, and instead set the entire main room ceiling to be 1580mm.  You also need to uncheck "use soffit surface for ceiling".   I then added "divider walls" to the dormers, setting them as separate "rooms" with the default ceiling height of 2480mm ("use soffit surface for ceiling" needs to be  unchecked).  
At this time, turn OFF "auto build roof" and then reset the main room ceiling to the default height.

You will still need to set "roof cuts wall at bottom" for each of the dormer side walls. It doesn't seem to matter if this is done before or after "auto build roof" is turned OFF.


In this scenario, the ceiling builds as it should, without the need to use sloped soffits to cover up ceiling gaps.


Who knew?!

 

image.thumb.png.a9be4057ec658c4edf5985130376f9a3.png

 

 

Hi Jo Ann. Thank you very much for your help!

 

I have upgraded to Pro, but unfortunately I'm still not having much luck.

 

I followed your above advice step by step, but still end up with an abomination.

 

Step 1: set the entire main room ceiling to be 1600mm.  "use soffit surface for ceiling" unchecked. No flat ceiling.

Step 2: added "divider walls" to the dormers, setting them as separate "rooms".( Invisible front wall)

Step 3: break exterior walls to make gable and set side walls to "roof cuts wall at bottom"

Step 4: Set dormer rooms to default 2500mm. "use soffit surface for ceiling" unchecked. No flat ceiling. (the right side Triangle walls have disappeared)

Step 5: Turned off auto rebuild roof and reset main room to default 2500 (all triangle walls have now disappeared)

Step 6: turned on flat ceilings on all rooms.

 

It probably has something to do with the wall definition layers, as you can see the main wall layer is protruding through the roof before I even start, but I need the layers set like this to indicate a thick cavity wall and to get the windows to recess to the correct layer. The door however refuses to recess to main layer, but that’s a different problem for a different day.

 

PLEASE can someone help me.  

 

 

5bc9a847b8585_Dormerstep4Ext.thumb.jpg.34f45922129fff85876de2a9037949e9.jpg5bc9a844b5493_Dormerstep3Int.thumb.jpg.debcce0f9d0d5613234dc5ebbf55f39e.jpg5bc9a8423990d_Dormerstep3Ext.thumb.jpg.9c511faf15988ba32268cf00cf10374e.jpg5bc9a83f67b77_Dormerstep2Int.thumb.jpg.ade80d8eaac9c9dda01e80aff920784e.jpg5bc9a83cd0eb1_Dormerstep2Ext.thumb.jpg.bf8243c29e57a623cb028b0da21c5b6f.jpg5bc9a8386f6b1_Dormerstep1Int.thumb.jpg.aaa28229709a2fda6d8c2bdb6a34e8d3.jpg5bc9a831559b4_Dormerstep1Ext.thumb.jpg.6d57fdfeb54c2be6d9c5a5dc3ea41bf2.jpg

 5bc9a84c06357_Dormerstep4Int.thumb.jpg.27546f7c5d94f17575577d27bb563e8a.jpg5bc9a87443628_Dormerstep5Ext.thumb.jpg.37bf22d03e7d4fc47f3a4aa4f9ea3283.jpg5bc9a8790d152_Dormerstep5Int.thumb.jpg.4c439fd7931b8d28ba5f90f7ce19258a.jpg5bc9a8869d529_Dormerstep6Ext.thumb.jpg.baf534f1766cdb59248cdc9e2db7c60f.jpg5bc9a88ab3064_Dormerstep6Int.thumb.jpg.d66476a682efdab98ed21c0afe492124.jpg

dormer.plan

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Thank you very much for that, solver, It certainly helped clean up a few areas. :)

I will have to relook at the wall layer definitions and try compromise. The main reason the other two wall layers weren't part of the main layer group was so that I could recess the doors and windows, but it seems to cause more problems than its worth. 

I was using soffits to cover the holes in the Interior walls in HD suite. I'm basically sitting with exactly the same issues as I did in Suite regarding these dormers, but the manual roof controls do help.

Thank you once again for taking the time to help.

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Forgot to comment on the window/door recess issue.

 

You can use a different wall type where doors and windows are. Here I'm using the wall as you had defined it (I changed the colors) with just the single main layer.

 

ht1.thumb.jpg.16f21ac9c5ad693e825384ec021b71cc.jpg

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